glider1
Deity
Turn 20 and Korea hasn't settled (Communitas 2.3.0) settler oscillates between two squares forever:
New Beta Version - April 14th (4/14)
- Thread starter Gazebo
- Start date
- Status
Okay so after watching a 20 min video on the history/science of naval mines, here is Supreme Leader's expert opinion on water boom booms: Minefields, considering they cost iron, need to "go big or go home", preferably avoiding the attrition feature.
If players really want to take this building seriously, every turn you could have it roll a small % chance (5 is inconsequential, but 10 is enough to make an invader sweat without being too unfair) to destroy or severely impair (left with 1hp?) enemy units stationed on any owned ocean/coast tiles within 3 rings of the city. Everyone would surely hate to lose an experienced ship 'by chance' like this, and that's precisely why it would be an effective deterrent; naval mines garnered the most value historically by instilling fear, essentially as a psychological weapon, while utilizing the ability to scare off enemies without active engagement. The amount of casualties caused by naval mines over time is low compared to the number of mines operated worldwide, and that's because people -- even aggressive, blood-thirsty conquerors, like the types who attempt naval invasions in the fist place -- are smart enough to not mess with them: when they actuate, it's devastating.
All that's then needed is a promotion (maybe even just incorporate into the existing "Minelayer" promo) made available for aspiring sailors that wish to keep playing with fire. This way there's a counter-play, but the threat and impact of the building still lingers without being completely nullified. "Minesweeper": Reduces chance of detonation from enemy Minefield by 5% for this unit, and for any owned/friendly adjacent units. Designing the promotion in this way prevents players from repetitively having to give each naval unit the promo; each fleet could have a 1 or 2 specialized minesweepers.
Fun facts:
There are 3 types of naval mines: bottoms, moored and drifting, with the hindmost banned since 1907 due to their recklessness. Despite the advances in modern technology, naval mines remain relatively similar to older models / implementations and are still the #1 aspect of Naval defenses for countries worldwide, though most modern naval mines are lain through the use of aircraft for increased safety measure.
If players really want to take this building seriously, every turn you could have it roll a small % chance (5 is inconsequential, but 10 is enough to make an invader sweat without being too unfair) to destroy or severely impair (left with 1hp?) enemy units stationed on any owned ocean/coast tiles within 3 rings of the city. Everyone would surely hate to lose an experienced ship 'by chance' like this, and that's precisely why it would be an effective deterrent; naval mines garnered the most value historically by instilling fear, essentially as a psychological weapon, while utilizing the ability to scare off enemies without active engagement. The amount of casualties caused by naval mines over time is low compared to the number of mines operated worldwide, and that's because people -- even aggressive, blood-thirsty conquerors, like the types who attempt naval invasions in the fist place -- are smart enough to not mess with them: when they actuate, it's devastating.
All that's then needed is a promotion (maybe even just incorporate into the existing "Minelayer" promo) made available for aspiring sailors that wish to keep playing with fire. This way there's a counter-play, but the threat and impact of the building still lingers without being completely nullified. "Minesweeper": Reduces chance of detonation from enemy Minefield by 5% for this unit, and for any owned/friendly adjacent units. Designing the promotion in this way prevents players from repetitively having to give each naval unit the promo; each fleet could have a 1 or 2 specialized minesweepers.
Fun facts:
There are 3 types of naval mines: bottoms, moored and drifting, with the hindmost banned since 1907 due to their recklessness. Despite the advances in modern technology, naval mines remain relatively similar to older models / implementations and are still the #1 aspect of Naval defenses for countries worldwide, though most modern naval mines are lain through the use of aircraft for increased safety measure.
If 5 dmg is too little and 10 is too hight, what about 7 or 8 dmg? Lol
Minefield giving defensive bonus makes no sense
Btw the previous minefield concept was too, annoying, that u had to move 2 tiles instead of 1 and it gave hp too... Although still naval warfare was swingy and I just didnt built much coadtal cities, but 1 tile from the coast, usually, while playing a peacefull gameplay.
The current version might make you rush for the minefield tech which is kinda nice... Maybe make another tech or stg that disables minefield? (Idk if that even exists irl)
Make a bug report on Github, please.
Snipergw
Warlord
This sounds fun. Coastal forts have historically been a problem for navies, but only the big ones. Small, out of date ones (forts, perhaps?) tended to get blown up by overwhelming firepower whenever they tried resisting the British, but then you have modern forts like in Singapore or Battaan that completely denied the use of the area for navies until ground forces could clear them out. I like the idea of being able to use a general to create a strong position guarding a strait or a bay from enemy fleets.
Citadels are already pretty OP, buffing them for naval balance might cause more issues
pineappledan
Deity
As much as this community likes to rail against % chance mechanics, this seems like the coolest and best implementation for the mines idea. relatively low (5% or less) chance of high damage (30 or more) on any enemy unit within 3 tiles of the city on the enemy's turn.
Tekamthi
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2016
- Messages
- 1,663
gameplay-wise, this is my fave of the minefield dmg per turn model as well... that said, the existing VP framework doesn't support this iirc, whereas a flatter dmg at either start or end of turn is already built-in
whatever the final form, a minefield that does dmg would be far better with some kind of visual indicator on the map so human can plan accordingly... we are mostly vets discussing here but much of my MP play is with newcomers to the mod... unless dmg is going to be very small and negligible, these types of players need something like this:
Last edited:
If the mine drops the ship to 1 hp or something it’s a possibility, but any high dmg mechanic will be a nightmare for humans. Human warring depends on minimal attrition + highly promoted units to beat the unending hoard.
I would never risk my super logistics cruiser even on only a 5%, meaning that as soon as my cruiser had only 30 health it has to leave the waters period.
That’s the milder issue, you then have the melee ships that basically cannot attack now, for the risk of dropping low enough to then get blown up by a mine. I don’t think that’s human viable.
Now drop to 1 hp (at the start of the units turn) is more interesting. The mine still takes the ship out of the fight but the human doesn’t lose his ship, he just loses its use for this engagement. That’s still very powerful but it no longer feels rage quitting unfair. It also gives a niche for subs, for as long as they dart into range but dart out again on the same turn, they don’t risk the mines.
Dovaj
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2017
- Messages
- 33
Did I miss a thread discussing the changes to Puppets? I see several questions about the changes, but no response. Was there discussion on GitHub or somewhere else about why this change was being implemented? It seems like a major change was made that impacts not only Civs like Venice, but some excellent MOD Civs and anyone trying to balance Happiness, Tech/Policy Cost, and expansion. Also, my plan to test the corrected Warmonger penalty and Anti-warmonger Fervor has been thwarted by what seems to me to be a major change to puppet/annexation strategy.
I am glad to see that there are issues being reported on GitHub, as everything that I have noticed in the 4/14 and 4/16 releases (Fort/Canals broken, Turn1 CTD with 43Civ DLL, etc.) have been reported. So, great job Community! I was just telling some very non-gamer friends about what a great group of folks are still working on/playing & modding Civ V. Y'all make me proud!
I am glad to see that there are issues being reported on GitHub, as everything that I have noticed in the 4/14 and 4/16 releases (Fort/Canals broken, Turn1 CTD with 43Civ DLL, etc.) have been reported. So, great job Community! I was just telling some very non-gamer friends about what a great group of folks are still working on/playing & modding Civ V. Y'all make me proud!
I may do some napkin math soon because I’m actually wondering if this is really a “nerf”. Considering that buildings for puppets take 5 times as long and deliver 1/5th the normal yield value, maybe running processes the whole time actually delivers better overall benefits, so I’ll be curious to dig and try and see
dailyminerals
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 16, 2018
- Messages
- 53
Asking again: The time it takes to steal a tech in the medieval period on marathon is about 6 turns. Is this intended or should I make a bug report.
It's not accurate to say that this change to puppets was discussed. I dont believe this outcome - puppets build defensive buildings only and then processes - was discussed.
IMO, it's a nerf. Yes, puppets previously didn't provide a huge number of yields. But early puppets could still develop sufficiently to eventually be worth annexing. That option will no longer be possible.
to clarify, puppets no longer building buildings was a GitHub special, it was not discussed on the forum
LarryAR
Chieftain
Another thing to consider is that breached or cleared minefields do not heal themselves. A cleared minefield should be like a pillaged tile. That is, if a minefield tile is cleared, it should stay that way until the owner regains control of his waters.
After the owner regains control of the area, the minefield could be is "repaired" at reduced cost and time from the building menu.
This should simplify balancing damage amounts and strategy considerations.
Noob Fanboy
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2017
- Messages
- 285
People what do you think of wonders so far?, I don't know if it's because I'm playing on Epic (although it's Deity), but in my game terracotta army went away before Great Library, Hanging Gardens was not prioritized either
Yes, these are the types of details that would need to be ironed out, and like Tekamthi shows above, there could be new art used to display the status of detonated tiles.
I didn't mean to imply that the issue was thoroughly discussed; perhaps I should have said "What (little) discussion did occur, occurred in these threads:"
It's safe to call this a bug.
Last edited:
- Status
