New Beta Version - August 16th (8/16)

[andersw]

Played a zulu game, I think all issues I saw already been reported.
Pangea low sea and 2 fewer cs for some room, Korea got 2 cities down and Netherlands 3.
Zulu upgrades felt very cool, all the extra HP is probably a bit over the top.
Got the message to "inform John" or someone similar in an AI trade message.
I was taken a bit by surprise when Great wall was gone at gunpowder (havent played since this changed).
Need a new game on immortal there was far to little resistance on emperor.

 

[tothePAIN]

AI deal values are weird. I just got an offer for 19 gold per turn for open borders.

11 gold for one horse. Deal values are out of whack.

21 gold and 2 luxury resources for 1 iron...

 

[Amask]

Might be anecdotal, but I've noticed militaristic city states really like having Minutemen, Janissaries, and Naresuan's Elephants as their secret unique unit. Has anyone else noticed this?

Playing my first game. Two militaristic city states on the map. They're gifting minutemen and janissaries.

 

[Murderologist]

How can he not afford it when I haven't offered him anything already? What if I was going to sell him back his capital for free?

can you recall the version or time when this was working? At this point im just going to go back to a previous version. I enjoy the late game warfare and with planes and missiles going missing and not being able to trade cities ill forfeit upgrades and new features for stability. I love the project hopefully these kinks get ironed out.

 

[Gidoza]

So I've played three games so far on Immortal, and I've found all of them to be astoundingly easy in this version. Whatever was changed seems to be an overcompensation.

In any case, some of the trades are really weird.

1. Embassy for a luxury resource.
2. A luxury resource for two luxury resources and a gallon of gold.
3. The AI wants 1100 for his borders opened on one turn when I ask for it; but the next turn he offers it to me plus other stuff just to get my open borders.

Yeah I think this is broken.

 

[InkAxis]

Warning! If you get a message from siam offering cheap elephants, Do Not Accept! It is a scam!

Spoiler :

Siam is running a very shady elephant business...
(I did not get any even after paying)

 

[Kim Dong Un]

Might be anecdotal, but I've noticed militaristic city states really like having Minutemen, Janissaries, and Naresuan's Elephants as their secret unique unit. Has anyone else noticed this?

I've been fed 8 units from military CS in my current game, and 6 of them have been Naresuan while the other 2 were standard units (tercio and knight).

Got the message to "inform John" or someone similar in an AI trade message.

Classic John

 

[2506]

can you recall the version or time when this was working? At this point im just going to go back to a previous version. I enjoy the late game warfare and with planes and missiles going missing and not being able to trade cities ill forfeit upgrades and new features for stability. I love the project hopefully these kinks get ironed out.

I'm pretty sure it's 3/15. I think it still has the "no giving back capital" issue. No idea how long that's been going on. But I haven't noticed any of the others. It might be a good idea to slow down the diplomacy improvements until the problems that arose as a result are ironed out.

 

[Murderologist]

I'm pretty sure it's 3/15. I think it still has the "no giving back capital" issue. No idea how long that's been going on. But I haven't noticed any of the others. It might be a good idea to slow down the diplomacy improvements until the problems that arose as a result are ironed out.

do you have any idea around when that actually worked I had to go back to early 2018 the last time it worked, does that sound correct?

 

[DaniSciB]

AI on Mid and Late Game is doing very well imo. And they are very aggresive.

Early on, AI is considerably more passive. Even Authority Civs (Which is very popular for the AI now) might not declare war at all. So, they are weak, but also they are not playing as a Warmonger as they should be... Maybe is because the starting bonuses were removed and they want to do other things. Strange.

On the bright side, there are more viable openings, specially for religion since now you don't need to go hardcore early on to see if you get a decent pantheon for you start and to found a religion because even Genghis Khan will found before you lol. In general religion race is "fairer" now.

But I think AI early expansion should be tweaked a little bit, even Progress civs are expanding slow and not much. (5 - 6 cities by turn 150 on standard)

Thoughts?

PD: AI tends to buy Open Borders for more than 1000 value. Kinda op.

 

[Amask]

Spoiler :

 

[2506]

do you have any idea around when that actually worked I had to go back to early 2018 the last time it worked, does that sound correct?

No, I don't. In fact, I only noticed the "no give-back" issue with the 3/15 version a couple of days ago.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Might be anecdotal, but I've noticed militaristic city states really like having Minutemen, Janissaries, and Naresuan's Elephants as their secret unique unit. Has anyone else noticed this?

I had that almost every game

 

[chihualuigi]

AI on Mid and Late Game is doing very well imo. And they are very aggresive.

Early on, AI is considerably more passive. Even Authority Civs (Which is very popular for the AI now) might not declare war at all. So, they are weak, but also they are not playing as a Warmonger as they should be... Maybe is because the starting bonuses were removed and they want to do other things. Strange.

On the bright side, there are more viable openings, specially for religion since now you don't need to go hardcore early on to see if you get a decent pantheon for you start and to found a religion because even Genghis Khan will found before you lol. In general religion race is "fairer" now.

But I think AI early expansion should be tweaked a little bit, even Progress civs are expanding slow and not much. (5 - 6 cities by turn 150 on standard)

Thoughts?

PD: AI tends to buy Open Borders for more than 1000 value. Kinda op.

Interesting that you're saying this, because this seems absurdly easier than previous versions by comparison. I'm new to posting here, but yeah...my game settings are Emperor and Marathon, huge map, 16 civs and 24 city states, most recent communitas map. Playing as Russia and by turn 270 or so, I'm at like 1200 score with 11 cities (only two of which I conquered) while 2nd place is at 600 score and the 2nd most cities is just 6.

Also...everyone loves me still, though maybe it's too early for them to hate me.

For comparison, at turn 270 on the most recent game I played with the previous version (same settings), I was in 2nd place (as the Aztecs), and I had 12 cities while most cities had at least 10 and as many as 18. I wasn't number 1 in more than 1 category at once and was actually getting beat to diplo, scientific, and cultural victories by different civs.

Side note, definitely seeing more Authority but also seeing some Progress and Tradition. Not quite as one-sided as some are reporting, so that's nice.

 

[tu_79]

This reaction was expected.
Removing the handicap trigger of settling the capital is an overall lost of yields for all AI that therefore leads to a weaker early game.
Instead of giving it back and repeat the loop, why don't we try increasing the value of handicapA, the one that is intended to affect the early game? This way AI that will recover some momentum once they found their second and third cities.

 

[JamesNinelives]

This reaction was expected.
Removing the handicap trigger of settling the capital is an overall lost of yields for all AI that therefore leads to a weaker early game.
Instead of giving it back and repeat the loop, why don't we try increasing the value of handicapA, the one that is intended to affect the early game? This way AI that will recover some momentum once they found their second and third cities.

I don't remember who suggested it, but I kinda like the bonus kicking in on founding a pantheon rather than on settling the capital. That way the religious game is still slightly easier (which was the real issue) without the AI being too weak.

For people who are finding this version too easy, I do suggest going up a difficulty to test the other aspects of balance. That's what I'm doing.

 

[azum4roll]

My guess is that when the AI asks for something, it guesses what you want out of it as if you're an AI. It's normal for an AI to ask for 2 luxuries and 20gpt for a single lux after all.

 

[Dolen2]

I just realized that... yeah AI early expansion is rather slow.
The show begins on around 200 turn Medieval ~ Renaissance era.
Tactical AI is fantastic, now the player needs some early pressure from AI so that it's not free real estate.

 

[Voremonger]

I played a long game as Rome, Immortal, on huge communitu with standard settings, at standard speed.
I found the game to be overall very enjoyable; Civ 5 with VP is literally my favorite strategy game and I think this patch has been yet another improvement.
The game eventually turned into a showdown between me and the militaristic Iroquis who were able to keep up with me in terms of conquering Cities.
In the Atomic Era half of my air Units suddenly disintegrated and because at this point victory was essentially assured for me I just stopped playing.

Some observations:

1. The AI seemed to be more likely to pick Authority, but not by much. Perhaps it depends on the map?
2. The AI seems to be more competent at conquering Cities: wars between AI seem to more frequently result in Cities being takes by the stronger AI. When I was attacked I felt like there was more pressure being put on me. A war between two City States actually resolved itself as one City State conquered the other. I didn't notice a significant uptick in Pillaging but the AI seemed to be better at capturing Civilian Units.
   
3. The AI has a slower start compared to before, but I found this to be somewhat inconsistent. Civs like Persia, Assyria, or the Aztecs are probably very strong right now (for humans). I like that you can now pick Civs like Rome with a realistic chance of founding a Religion. I also like that you have a better chance of successfully rushing Wonders like Terracotta Army.
   
4. The AI is much more willing to trade Strategic Resources. The AI did offer to trade them before but because the offers were typically insultingly bad I almost never accepted them. I like that right now trading Strategic Resources is a viable option. However, I think that right now the AI are also too willing to buy Strategic Resources. The first problem is that this can be somewhat abused to obtain Gold from the AI. I think it's also somewhat of a liability for the AI to import a large part of their Strategic Resources.
5. The AI feel like they only consider their own end of the deal when making trade offers. I frequently got an offer to trade the single copy of a Luxury Resource that I had for another resource that an AI had multiple of. Since the only possible benefit I could get from this would be WLTKD in some of my Cities I almost never accept such deals.
   
6. While I prefer aggressive AI I don't like pointless DoWs from the other side of the world. I think it makes the AI feel more like annoyances than credible threats. I would prefer a cold-war-like attitude where the AI might just stop trading with you altogether if they really hate you (or they only accept extremely generous trades). DoW for selfish reasons should only be done to nearby Civs.
   
7. Unrelated to the changes from this patch: I founded TwoKay Foods and Happiness immediately became a total non-issue because each office built reduces needs in all Cities by 5%. If it was mathematically possible I would have been at 500% approval for the rest of the game as the only Unhappiness I got at that point was from Specialists and War Weariness. It seemed kind of crazy; is this intended?

 

[tu_79]

The AI feel like they only consider their own end of the deal when making trade offers. I frequently got an offer to trade the single copy of a Luxury Resource that I had for another resource that an AI had multiple of. Since the only possible benefit I could get from this would be WLTKD in some of my Cities I almost never accept such deals.

This is partly the case. Purchaser's abundance of the resource is taken into account, but not his cash. In other words, AI can say if you might want horses, but it doesn't know if you desperately need money.