New Beta Version - August 16th (8/16)

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The arc of betas is actually extremely frustrating for "latest version only" mod whores like myself. It goes, new beta- "ooh sweet lemme wait till they iron all the kinks out with hotfixes. (wait a week). Nice Hotfixes complete! Begin marathon game! Two days later... "Get your Shiny New Beta here fresh off the press!". Old beta is now worthless with knowledge of new beta- game abandoned. Repeat Cycle.
 
Just wanted to let people know, particularly @CrazyG that I also posted a Github issue for the Progress opener, and the response was 'already fixed'. Which implies that it was indeed unintentional. Might be in the hotfix above? Guess I'll try it and find out.
Jiggly said:
The arc of betas is actually extremely frustrating for "latest version only" mod whores like myself. It goes, new beta- "ooh sweet lemme wait till they iron all the kinks out with hotfixes. (wait a week). Nice Hotfixes complete! Begin marathon game! Two days later... "Get your Shiny New Beta here fresh off the press!". Old beta is now worthless with knowledge of new beta- game abandoned. Repeat Cycle.
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That sounds frustrating! I tend to prefer to keep playing a particular game until I finish, or get bored and then check the new stuff :). So if there's something new coming out soon I'll start a game anyway and just see how it goes.
 
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Jiggly said:
The arc of betas is actually extremely frustrating for "latest version only" mod whores like myself. It goes, new beta- "ooh sweet lemme wait till they iron all the kinks out with hotfixes. (wait a week). Nice Hotfixes complete! Begin marathon game! Two days later... "Get your Shiny New Beta here fresh off the press!". Old beta is now worthless with knowledge of new beta- game abandoned. Repeat Cycle.
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Are you complaining that the devs make version too quickly? Either way, you have about a month and a half to play a game. Usually hotfixes are only for bugs, and they are savegame compatible. The last major hotfix was made nearly a week ago, and there weren't any game-breaking bugs.
 
@ChefBRD and also other players struggling with happiness

Yes indeed it is quite tough recently to stay over 50% on wider games. Especially true when annexing cities. Huge hit to happiness. I suggest if a city is not important to get rid of it. I sell even puppet cities to other Civs. Let them deal with unhappiness, I have no use of it and receive good money on them on auction.

The hit to increased military production cost and military effectiveness is a big deal. I find it strange that empire unhappiness affects military effectiveness.

Think unhappiness as the equivalent of unemployment in real life. The mod makes high unemployment to increase military production cost. In fact increased military production can and historically does reduce unemployment. On top of that the mod makes unemployment to also reduce soldier strength on the battlefield, which is not quite right. The government can impose high taxes to civilians in order to keep the military strong and large at the expense of social welfare. In other words, unhappiness in the game should not hit the military effectiveness but the science and culture output. When you want strong army be prepared to pay that cost as unhapiness in handicapping the culture and science outputs of the civilian economy instead. High taxes to support big strong army make citizens unhappy and makes them unproductive in science and culture, and a small army makes for a happy strong civilian empire with tons of :c5science: and :culture: and :tourism:

So I disagree on this mechanics about unhappiness affecting military strength and cost of their production. I agree though that being over the military cap reduces population growth as captured in the mod.

To combat unhappiness try to make friends with maritime city-states as they give many happy faces. Most city-state ally will give at least luxuries to help, but maritime CS is best in that.
 
Agree with HixBozo on military. When i'm warmongering it makes no sense taking an hit on my combat efficiency due to unhappiness. I'm paying good money to keep my troops well supplied. Warmonger fervor and other malus are fine.
 
It does seem that happyness problems are a bit too common, maybe we should consider giving more free happy to lower difficulties?
 
stii said:
It does seem that happyness problems are a bit too common, maybe we should consider giving more free happy to lower difficulties?
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Depends what difficulty the people with happiness issues are playing on.
HixBozo said:
Think unhappiness as the equivalent of unemployment in real life.
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Lol. There are so many many other reasons for civil unrest than unemployment.
General_Drax said:
it makes no sense taking an hit on my combat efficiency due to unhappiness. I'm paying good money to keep my troops well supplied.
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And if their kids at home don't have enough food, are they supposed to be OK with that? If their wife has to work manual labour in a factory that treats workers like dirt while all the men are at war? Troops fight for a country they believe in. If people in the city they come from don't have access to education, good food and water, shelter etc. should they really be so keen to give their lives?
 
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JamesNinelives said:
Just wanted to let people know, particularly @CrazyG that I also posted a Github issue for the Progress opener, and the response was 'already fixed'. Which implies that it was indeed inintentional. Might be in the hotfix above? Guess I'll try it and find out.


That sounds frustrating! I tend to prefer to keep playing a particular game until I finish, or get bored and then check the new stuff :). So if there's something new coming out soon I'll start a game anyway and just see how it goes.
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Already fixed / Fixed for upcoming version denote that an issue existed and was fixed.

Intentional means it was intentional.
 
Well, that discussion about standard/epic speed and human is better strategically is way too theatralic.

Its simply the difference in how fast you can kill and the ability of the AI to replace it.
The amount of units you are able to kill is in standard and epic the same, but in epic, the AI needs longer to refill its rows. So you are able to deplete the AI resistance much faster.
In some circumstances, playing epic enables you to beat the AI, while doing the same battle in standard would end in a stalemate.

Killing 2 units per turn while AI can replace 2 in standard ends in an infinite stalemate. In epic, you still would kill 2 units per turn, but AI would need 3 turns, which end in in longer time frame to a depletion of the AI forces.
 
WRT to the happiness discussion, I can say that playing on Deity standard as Progress, I almost never have any significant problems with happiness where I'd be below 45% for a longer period.
 
I find Epic more smooth and authentic and immersive but unfortunately I am not okay with the increased length of finishing the game. So I play on Standard and my games already get too long.

The other day I was playing with Greece and had a nice army of hoplites on Standard. Not much was going on so I decided to march my army to enemy territory. But there was a vast desert to cross and it took forever to reach my destination. I felt like Alexander the Great crossing the treacherous Gedrosian desert where he lost half his army. When I arrived there Brazil already had pikemen and I lost the battle to outdated army.

The lesson is if you play huge maps with vast territory to cross better be Epic to avoid a situation like this when the enemy reaches a new military tech by the time you reach there.
 
LifeOfBrian said:
WRT to the happiness discussion, I can say that playing on Deity standard as Progress, I almost never have any significant problems with happiness where I'd be below 45% for a longer period.
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How many cities do you make in your game (annexed vs puppet). I'm trying to catalog if there is a cut off point with number of cities where the unhappiness seems to kick in.
 
Zanteogo said:
That's the one where the civilian units cannot be taken if left on own right?
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I believe so, although I hadn't actually noticed that.
Edit: NM, I hadn't read down to the new hotfix that corrects this issue.
 
I had a warmongering game with Zulu, and ironically I was the most happy when I was razing three cities... When I was peaceful and trying to rebuild, building infrastructure/PW, I was going below 50, but once I went to war again I was around 60. Maybe my citizens just love seeing their enemies burn...

But I do think that the happiness system is quite complex and there are a lot of things that can factor into it, so we need to keep that in mind.
 
BiteInTheMark said:
Well, that discussion about standard/epic speed and human is better strategically is way too theatralic.

Its simply the difference in how fast you can kill and the ability of the AI to replace it.
The amount of units you are able to kill is in standard and epic the same, but in epic, the AI needs longer to refill its rows. So you are able to deplete the AI resistance much faster.
In some circumstances, playing epic enables you to beat the AI, while doing the same battle in standard would end in a stalemate.

Killing 2 units per turn while AI can replace 2 in standard ends in an infinite stalemate. In epic, you still would kill 2 units per turn, but AI would need 3 turns, which end in in longer time frame to a depletion of the AI forces.
Click to expand...
So your logic would also apply the other way around aka it is easier to defend on standard speed.

This discussion about what speed is more difficult is so pointless.
 
What I'd like to see in this mod is a pronounced trade-off between the 4 types of victory in this game. I am a little bit tired of winning space victories almost always.

Because science is just such a dominant mechanics with little handicap to it. I wished there was stronger trade-off, for example

Strong military v/s sacrifice culture
Strong diplomacy v/s sacrifice gold (sort of expensive to bribe nations and CS to vote for you)
I am not sure against what to contrast science. It is this universal achievement which benefits everything, but maybe the cost of scientific achievement is the damage done to the environment (industrialization, pesticides, polution). But environmental effects don't exist in Civ5. Maybe population growth ?
 
Zuizgond said:
So your logic would also apply the other way around aka it is easier to defend on standard speed.

This discussion about what speed is more difficult is so pointless.
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No

Humans have less units than the AI unless you turn the difficulty down real low. If you don't find this interesting just don't comment in the first place.
 
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