New Beta Version - August 6th (8/6)

[ElliotS]

Not sure. The MP bugfixer that was here some time ago has gone, and he left the last set of changes unfinished. I reverted them because of bugs, and now, here we are. I've spent too much time mucking about with it (to no avail), I don't see a need to continue.

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Maybe with Gold Edition we could convince them to come back, when they won't need to worry about anything they do getting overwritten by future changes?

 

[Gazebo]

Maybe with Gold Edition we could convince them to come back, when they won't need to worry about anything they do getting overwritten by future changes?

I don’t think it was that. I think it was just that there are modders who get bursts of inspiration and then peace out for a bit. See Putmalk.

Problem is that I don’t have a decent method to debug MP on my own.

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[Gazebo]

It’s been a bit - how does everyone feel about AI warring? Is it slightly less erratic? I cut a lot of forced wars out of the AI scripts.

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[Enrico Swagolo]

Ethiopia declared war on me and my overpowered blob of Sonicmishers when they've had only warriors, spearman, an archer or two and much later a catapult after I crippled them. Granted, I was fighting Zulu right then so I can see they only tried to use an opportunity, even if they couldn't possibly take a single walled city with their pitiful army.

In general, my impression is positive, but it wasn't negative even before the change.

 

[XplosiveLun]

I would say AI actually behaves like human player. Instead of erratic, I would say it feels "organic". In terms of warring, the AI is very competent. Its like playing diplomacy game where every players want a piece of pie. They are deceptive and opportunistic such that they always attack human player with a sign of weakness, be it over-expanding or falling behind in development.

To give a few hints on my playstyle, I'm a wide player with land-grabbing tendency. I always like building monuments and shrines in the first few cities to grab a few early policies and securing a religion, instead of securing lands with advanced armies.

In early game during the land-grabbing period, for instance, when I have too many underdeveloped cities and weak army, especially those mainly consists of archers and non-resources units, AI will attack with horsemen, aggressively pushing and puppeting conquered cities. There is only slight chance I could push back, or I would restart. I loves this warring AI even though it could be frustrating sometimes.

 

[CrazyG]

I'm not sure what the correct thread is for this. But I've found a couple examples of very poor religion choices for AI. India and the Celts need some special logic for their unique abilities.

The Celts will choose an enhancer that increases their pressure. Celtic cities do not produce pressure to foreign cities, so this does basically nothing. Boudicca likes to spread her religion a lot, so I understand why this belief registers as a good idea, but with the UA its useless. This occured in my Aztec photojournal.

The second is India will choose beliefs that benefit missionaries, which it cannot build. For example in my game it choose Way of the Pilgrim. He is pursuing a tourism victory so I see why he choose this, but his UA makes it a poor choice. This occurred two games in a row.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

As for wars, I haven't noticed big changes, I mostly like it just as I liked it before. There's still the occasional odd DoW from a civ against a considerably stronger civ (either AI or human) even when that stronger civ isn't at war with anyone else. Perhaps the AI is a bit too willing to DoW if paid to (by another AI), but that's just a gut feeling from a few impressions in my recent games.

Regarding religion, I agree with CrazyG, have seen similar stuff. Also, in my current game, I saw Greece propose (and it passed) its religion as the world religion, and a few world congress sessions later it proposed the repeal of it and voted in favour of repealing it, despite still controlling the holy city of that religion.

 

[ColonelCarter]

The Celts will choose an enhancer that increases their pressure. Celtic cities do not produce pressure to foreign cities, so this does basically nothing. Boudicca likes to spread her religion a lot, so I understand why this belief registers as a good idea, but with the UA its useless. This occured in my Aztec photojournal.

I interpreted the Celtic ability that they don't generate foreign religious pressure; i.e. if you convert their city with missionaries/prophet, that city won't exert pressure from the new religion. But their own religion will still exert pressure if their cities have it as a majority.

 

[CrazyG]

I interpreted the Celtic ability that they don't generate foreign religious pressure; i.e. if you convert their city with missionaries/prophet, that city won't exert pressure from the new religion. But their own religion will still exert pressure if their cities have it as a majority.

That isn't how it works

 

[Owlbebach]

The Celts will choose an enhancer that increases their pressure. Celtic cities do not produce pressure to foreign cities, so this does basically nothing. Boudicca likes to spread her religion a lot, so I understand why this belief registers as a good idea, but with the UA its useless. This occured in my Aztec photojournal.

The second is India will choose beliefs that benefit missionaries, which it cannot build. For example in my game it choose Way of the Pilgrim. He is pursuing a tourism victory so I see why he choose this, but his UA makes it a poor choice. This occurred two games in a row.

Those might actually be better choices than you think. I actually had games for India and Celts where i was choosing those beliefs. .
Scripture for Celts increases pressure of foreing cities agains foreing cities. Thats a debatable choice for sure, but might work under right circumstances.
The main power of Piligrim is not / from missionaries. It is almost mothing. Main power is the reformation wonder, which grants +5 to Holy Sites and has 4 slots for Great Works. The only problem is to Reform naturally for India, i doubt AI iis capable of this.....
However i agree that both of this choices require very careful execution AND right situation

 

[CrazyG]

Those might actually be better choices than you think. I actually had games for India and Celts where i was choosing those beliefs. .
Scripture for Celts increases pressure of foreing cities agains foreing cities. Thats a debatable choice for sure, but might work under right circumstances.
The main power of Piligrim is not / from missionaries. It is almost mothing. Main power is the reformation wonder, which grants +5 to Holy Sites and has 4 slots for Great Works. The only problem is to Reform naturally for India, i doubt AI iis capable of this.....
However i agree that both of this choices require very careful execution AND right situation

I thought enhancers only affected whoever the religious leader is.

 

[Owlbebach]

I have another question. Two actually.
1) I just spotted Pagoda in my city saying it does not give me any yields:

Is that a bug of new Improved City View or a bug of Pagoda? @Infixo can you comment on that?

2) Is it possible to destroy an Artifact? I just found outr that i filled all of my slots with Atifacts and i need 1 more Work of Art for Hermitage....

 

[CrazyG]

Is that a bug of new Improved City View or a bug of Pagoda? @Infixo can you comment on that?

I think the yields appear in another spot. Check your culture income and see if you and "from religion".

 

[Owlbebach]

I thought enhancers only affected whoever the religious leader is.

Oh really? Are you sure? I actually never payed much attention to that, but it seemed to me that they work for the whole religion, not just your cities. If they work for your cities only - they are just useless.

I think the yields appear in another spot. Check your culture income and see if you and "from religion".

Might be, but i am in Industrial already, it is just impossible to track them, i have so much of everything from lots of differrent sources

 

[CrazyG]

Might be, but i am in Industrial already, it is just impossible to track them, i have so much of everything from lots of differrent sources

No its easy to see. However your mouse over your production or another yield in the city, it will show all your sources and your modifiers.

 

[Owlbebach]

No its easy to see. However your mouse over your production or another yield in the city, it will show all your sources and your modifiers.

Oh yeah, thanks. I actually see that. I know about hovering, but my problem was that in culture, gold and faith i have 30+ "from religion". But in production and science i see 2, so there is no bug. Thanks

 

[Tzar Sasha]

Small thing. Arenas state that they provide +2 tourism. On a huge map, they are providing 1.4 tourism. Not sure if this tourism is supposed to scale to map size / speed or if it should go up or down from base as a result of scaling. In any case, if the tourism from arenas are intended to scale, can the tooltip be adjusted to indicate this.

 

[chicorbeef]

Small thing. Arenas state that they provide +2 tourism. On a huge map, they are providing 1.4 tourism. Not sure if this tourism is supposed to scale to map size / speed or if it should go up or down from base as a result of scaling. In any case, if the tourism from arenas are intended to scale, can the tooltip be adjusted to indicate this.

You get a tourism penalty for every non puppet city you have. You can see how big the penalty is if you hover over the tourism tooltip at the top of the screen.

 

[Tzar Sasha]

You get a tourism penalty for every non puppet city you have. You can see how big the penalty is if you hover over the tourism tooltip at the top of the screen.

You get a tourism penalty for your own cities? That doesn't seem right. I'd think you'd get a penalty from cities that you have puppeted, annexed or even razed.
I saw a -30% but thought that meant it was a penalty for puppeted cities. In an earlier game that crapped out, I had puppeted cities with negative tourism thus that seemed like a logical connection.

 

[Gazebo]

I'm not sure what the correct thread is for this. But I've found a couple examples of very poor religion choices for AI. India and the Celts need some special logic for their unique abilities.

The Celts will choose an enhancer that increases their pressure. Celtic cities do not produce pressure to foreign cities, so this does basically nothing. Boudicca likes to spread her religion a lot, so I understand why this belief registers as a good idea, but with the UA its useless. This occured in my Aztec photojournal.

The second is India will choose beliefs that benefit missionaries, which it cannot build. For example in my game it choose Way of the Pilgrim. He is pursuing a tourism victory so I see why he choose this, but his UA makes it a poor choice. This occurred two games in a row.

You're mistaken on the Celts, I changed them a while back. They generate pressure normally, but don't receive it. The kicker is that only they can benefit from their Pantheon, so they can share a weakened religion with others.

Re: India, it has special code already, and there's an explicit check that limits the value of spreading bonuses. It is possible that, in spite of that, it was still of interest to him because of the national wonder tied to it.

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