New Beta Version - August 6th (8/6)

[Aristos]

I am playing CP only, 8.6.2. Didn't want to post this on git, as I am not sure I can qualify it as a bug, but nevertheless is worth sharing. Started a game with America yesterday, immediate neighbor is Egypt, too close. Immortal level, fractal, all standard. I decide to steal a worker and go for the capital. So, long battle of warriors-archers-spears follows, and I slowly grind the Egyptian defenses. When I am about to finally take the capital (and end Egypt!), they finish the GL... what? You are losing the battle for survival while you are continuing to build the GL for me?

Doesn't seem right. I assume CP only includes all AI improvements, yes?

Is this a bug?

 

[CppMaster]

I am playing CP only, 8.6.2. Didn't want to post this on git, as I am not sure I can qualify it as a bug, but nevertheless is worth sharing. Started a game with America yesterday, immediate neighbor is Egypt, too close. Immortal level, fractal, all standard. I decide to steal a worker and go for the capital. So, long battle of warriors-archers-spears follows, and I slowly grind the Egyptian defenses. When I am about to finally take the capital (and end Egypt!), they finish the GL... what? You are losing the battle for survival while you are continuing to build the GL for me?

Doesn't seem right. I assume CP only includes all AI improvements, yes?

Is this a bug?

It may be caused by Egyptian flavour for building wonders. I wouldn't call it a bug.

 

[Aristos]

It may be caused by Egyptian flavour for building wonders. I wouldn't call it a bug.

It's still suicide, and should not happen... unless flavor is suicidal? IIRC, even in civ 6 they (FXS) managed to correct that "suicidal" tendency of the AI... it used to do this all the time before 2-3 patches ago, and now it doesn't (as in, it will interrupt any wonder building and start cranking out units). I just wonder if it is because I am using CP only, or something else...

 

[Gazebo]

It's still suicide, and should not happen... unless flavor is suicidal? IIRC, even in civ 6 they (FXS) managed to correct that "suicidal" tendency of the AI... it used to do this all the time before 2-3 patches ago, and now it doesn't (as in, it will interrupt any wonder building and start cranking out units). I just wonder if it is because I am using CP only, or something else...

One quirk does not a bug make.

G

 

[Gazebo]

Teaser for upcoming beta.

Changelog
    Fix for CTD some users are seeing after loading a save
    Assorted smaller bugfixes and typo fixes
    
Balance
    Religion
        Buildings
            Order: now gives XP to all unit types, not just land
        Follower
            Reduced caps on follower beliefs
                Science (now +10)
                Faith (now +5)
                Culture (now +10)
                Production (now +10)
        Pantheon
            Dropped Expanse to 18 faith (was 20), fixed missing era scaler text
    Civs
        Korea
            Seowon - unlocks at Philosophy (was education)
                GWs in city (local) produce +1 science and production
        Portugal
            Dropped UA value to +3 (was +5)
    Policies
        Imperialism
            Dropped yields on Fort/Citadel/Barracks/Armory/Military Academy to +2 (was +3)
            Dropped plot yield value on Ocean to +1 for science (was +2)
        Rationalism
            New scaler:
                Now a flat 5% science for opener, +2% science per policy
                -5% yield need modifiers on opener, -2% on each policy
            Enlightenment: Receive one free Technology. +10% Science, Growth, and Gold in Cities during ''We Love the King Day.'' +1 Happiness from Universities.
                Removed GA stuff, as the tree is no longer benefitting or building off of GAs. WLTKD bonuses are better for rationalism as they directly effect city yield outputs
                    Also gives civs like China and Brazil more 3rd-branch options
            Academics: +1 Gold from every Specialist. +2 Production and Culture from Villages.
                Moved village stuff up here
            Empiricism: Foreign Spies are 34% less effective in all owned cities. Specialists consume 1 less Food than normal (minimum 1).
                Bumped spy bonus to 34% (was 25%)
            Free Thought: +25% Yields when you expend Great Scientists or Great Engineers for an instant yield boost. Halves Religious Unrest in all cities.   
                Moved GE/GS stuff here
    Wonders
        CN Tower - loses free broadcast tower all cities bonus. Now grants a free one in city where it is built, boosts tourism from wonders/improvements/ etc. by 50% for city, and all GWs gain +1g/+1 tourism
        Bletchley - added: all Scientist specialists gain +2 science
    Units
        Upgrades
            Removed era scaler for upgrade cost- should flatten out costs a bit
        Promotions
            Charge I/II - now 20% v. wounded (was 15%)

Do your thing.

G

 

[CrazyG]

It could be a bit too harsh on Portugal and imperialism.

Unlocking the Seowon earlier is a neat idea. Helps Korea's short game without making the long game even better. However, you really want the University of Sankore so I'm not sure how much this really does for Korea.

Bletchley looks cool.

 

[Owlbebach]

Many cool thing, i like it, but this..........

Dropped Expanse to 18 faith (was 20), fixed missing era scaler text

.....does it even change anything? I thought that the problem is that it provides to much faith later in the game...

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Science (now +10) Faith (now +5) Culture (now +10) Production (now +10

In light of these changes, will thrift be changed to 1g per 2 followers?

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Dropped UA value to +3 (was +5)

That's too big of a nerf to Portugal, imo. It'd be better to change the gold&science to 4, and the GA/GG to 3.

 

[Gokudo01]

I really feel like it s too much for imperialism
What is the point to have flat values if it doesnt greatly increase your output when you pick it?
Both other trees have got scaling values that will outscience imperialism during industrial/modern era

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

CN Tower - loses free broadcast tower all cities bonus. Now grants a free one in city where it is built,

I'll almost always build CN Tower in my capital or in another high production/population city, which means I'll already have a broadcast tower there. So maybe instead a culture/boredom reduction in all cities?

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Teaser for upcoming beta.

Do your thing.

G

Follower - I definitely won't be picking Veneration. I'm not picking it even now to begin with. Just because it overperforms for AI which can and wants to spam his missionaries doesn't mean it's good. This doesn't make some religious buildings more appealing, it just turns this belief into a bad idea.

Portugal is definitely overnerfed as it's back to where it was when tons of players wanted it buffed (some did even at 4 yields I suppose, because it did eventually turn into 5), Imperialism seems to be hit a tad too hard as well, Parthian Tactics is untouched and as such still overpowered. Charge is still in a bad spot. The change was unnecessary. It won't be inferior to Shock but I don't think I'll be picking it.
Also why no Ottomans nerf? They get more yields than Portugal does from trade routes in their UA.

 

[CrazyG]

I agree on parthian tactics.

Charge is still in a bad spot. The change was unnecessary. It won't be inferior to Shock but I don't think I'll be picking it.

I tested this pretty extensively in a game, I took different paths for all my knights/ lancers. At 25% damage on wounded, charge was very good.
Lancers with shock II and charge 1 consistently dealt more damage than a lancer with shock III.
Lancers with charge 1 and shock III usually dealt more damage than lancers with shock III and overrun. Shock and overrun aren't that powerful unless you can flank on 3 sides, which seems much harder most of the time to do than to just wound the unit.

I think that overall the best strategy is to go for march first, then take charge instead of overrun, unless you expect to fight in really rough terrain. Is your experience different?

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I agree on parthian tactics.

I tested this pretty extensively in a game, I took different paths for all my knights/ lancers. At 25% damage on wounded, charge was very good.
Lancers with shock II and charge 1 consistently dealt more damage than a lancer with shock III.
Lancers with charge 1 and shock III usually dealt more damage than lancers with shock III and overrun. Shock and overrun aren't that powerful unless you can flank on 3 sides, which seems much harder most of the time to do than to just wound the unit.

I think that overall the best strategy is to go for march first, then take charge instead of overrun, unless you expect to fight in really rough terrain. Is your experience different?

Concerning Lancers, you're talking current version? Charge loses out on defense that shock provides though, and Charge doesn't unlock other stuff. I agree that Overrun isn't all that hot.
March seems not all that hot this version. I fear it can make my unit die, so I prefer going Drill route on horses. Stalwart + Blitz are way better than Drill uniques, even if losing the flank bonuses hurts. Death is less likely, damage is not really worse since you get a second attack sometimes. I only go Shock on horses before Alhambra which is relatively easy to get because I'd feel bad wasting a promotion.

 

[pineappledan]

Glad to see the Charge values go back up to 20%

CN Tower
Free Broadcast Tower
+1 and +1 in all cities
+50% from wonders and tiles in this city
+1 / from all GWs on Empire

I would never build that wonder

It's very expensive which means that if I am building it at all, I'm going for a cultural victory, which definitely means I didn't ignore broadcast towers in a high-production city. I can't think of a good reason to have a free building from 2 eras ago.

Compared to CERN (2 free techs and 100 with all city states), and considering that there might be <50 turns left in the game when CN tower is built. No way that this competes with Sydney Opera House's free social policy.

I think CN tower needs something else. Some other ideas:
- 2 Free Great Musicians are born in city (like a cultural hubble telescope)
- Make constructing the CN tower give a 5-10x power historic event, just a huge tourism bomb on everyone.
- Make the bonuses to GW's just flippin insane (+5/ for GWs on empire)
- Make the CN tower give another level of tourism bonus from technologies.

 

[Aristos]

One quirk does not a bug make.

G

Hmmm... hopefully a quirk only. Now that we are at it, I have another one: I noticed that sometimes the game will count a lux as double, without any justification from game rules, flavors, etc... right now, I have that same game as America, the conquered Thebes has 1 Incense, yet the game credits me for 2, I can even trade 1 and still get the hap bonus from the "second" one... I will see if I can get the savegame up for you. It may be CP only (the time I noticed it before I was also playing CP only). Should I post it as a bug in git, or do you want to say something first? (not sure if bug, or CP, or both).

 

[Kim Dong Un]

I'll almost always build CN Tower in my capital or in another high production/population city, which means I'll already have a broadcast tower there. So maybe instead a culture/boredom reduction in all cities?

I used to always hold off on building broadcast towers in any cities because I would want CN Tower 90% of games. Now I'll have to build them and won't feel bad about possibly wasting production on a building I might've got in the near future for free on mass. I like the change, but do agree that you're almost always going to be building in the capital, which will probably already have a broadcast tower built...

 

[Kim Dong Un]

I think CN tower needs something else. Some other ideas:
- 2 Free Great Musicians are born in city (like a cultural hubble telescope)
- Make constructing the CN tower give a 5-10x power historic event, just a huge tourism bomb on everyone.
- Make the bonuses to GW's just flippin insane (+5/ for GWs on empire)
- Make the CN tower give another level of tourism bonus from technologies.

Yea it will definitely need a buff, or it's underwhelming.

 

[CrazyG]

I think its okay to leave a broadcast tower on the CN Tower for flavor purposes. I think you can sell your existing tower and have it replaced with one that takes no maintenance if you want.

However, it needs to have a strong effect when you ignore the free tower. I don't think that tourism bonus is enough (this thing costs a lot of hammers)

Hmmm... hopefully a quirk only. Now that we are at it, I have another one: I noticed that sometimes the game will count a lux as double, without any justification from game rules, flavors, etc... right now, I have that same game as America, the conquered Thebes has 1 Incense, yet the game credits me for 2, I can even trade 1 and still get the hap bonus from the "second" one... I will see if I can get the savegame up for you. It may be CP only (the time I noticed it before I was also playing CP only). Should I post it as a bug in git, or do you want to say something first? (not sure if bug, or CP, or both).

Is the city settled on top of an incense?

Concerning Lancers, you're talking current version? Charge loses out on defense that shock provides though, and Charge doesn't unlock other stuff. I agree that Overrun isn't all that hot.
March seems not all that hot this version. I fear it can make my unit die, so I prefer going Drill route on horses. Stalwart + Blitz are way better than Drill uniques, even if losing the flank bonuses hurts. Death is less likely, damage is not really worse since you get a second attack sometimes. I only go Shock on horses before Alhambra which is relatively easy to get because I'd feel bad wasting a promotion.

See the promotions thread.

 

[ColonelCarter]

You're mistaken on the Celts, I changed them a while back. They generate pressure normally, but don't receive it. The kicker is that only they can benefit from their Pantheon, so they can share a weakened religion with others.

So I started a Celts game to test it out since I hadn't actually played them since I came back after a year+ break, and most foreign cities aren't receiving pressure from mine. I converted a foreign city and that one seems to now both exert and accept pressure of my religion. EDIT: the pressure it's getting is from a trade route they sent me.
It's weird though, because I could have sworn I had received Celtic pressure from the Celts themselves while unconverted in other games like you say it should work.