New Beta Version - Feb. 9th (2-9)

[Tekamthi]

This community is always fun to stop in on.

I'm eager to finish off my November/December era game and try these changes.. I'll reserve judgment on the one range archer, though it sounds possibly a jarring fix.

Could just be my preferred game settings, but I nearly always rely on early conquest to stay competitive as the game wears on.. ie my preferred strat is archer dependant. That said I've pulled it off with chariots and other alternatives before so meh

I raised such ideas already in other threads, but I'd rather see archer limited in other means.. I like the way temp naval promos apply penalties now (this recent game is my first in a long time).. this mechanism strikes me as offering a great compromise.. eg 2-range archer gets post (city?) attack promo that blocks attack for 1-turn, or applies -1 range for x turns etc.. ie if archer has 2 range attack one turn and 0 the next it still averages to 1-range. I realize the archer rush needs to be mitigated, just feel it could be done better

 

[Crag Hack]

The old system favored / helped those who were already leading, and penalized those who were already "behind". For the sake of curbing snowballing and trying to "even the playfield", it was a reasonable call to change to the current system.

I don't truly understand what happened there. But that system was the closest to gold and just needed to be polished a little bit.

Yes when you snowball in science it get's hard to stop you because you constantly unlock new building to close the food gap, or the gold gap, or the culture gap. In essence the problem was that these building were giving heavy advantages.

And the leaders were widening their leadership and all the rest were miles behind. It was not a problem with the system but a problem with the buildings, so the polishing remained to be done on the buildings and find a way to slow them.

Another issue was the AI programming. How do you program the AI to switch tactics from culture to food in order to equalize the field ? A human can switch tactics, but the AI was impossible to make them learn.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Maybe I need a few months to go work on other projects. I spent all my free time for 3 straight days rolling out compatibility updates for this latest patch. That’s time I would rather spend making something new, or learning a new skill, or reading. I spend so much time reacting to a change, or pleading against further changes because it negatively affects both how I like to play and how much time I dedicate to just keeping my own things working. I mod now out of a twisted responsibility to make my stuff work for other people rather than out of genuine enthusiasm.

I hate how I end up having petty conversations against anything changing, because the 4UC mod is affected by any pre-industrial balance change. I hate how small all these differences in opinion are, none of this matters. I don’t want to be this person having these conversations and I think it’s negatively affecting my offline life. So I need to go away for a while.

Iam sorry to hear this, cause I think we were often pulling on the same side of a rope and I noticed something in you is going on in the last time.
I can understand using your free time only to do things which have to be done and maybe more often you dont agree with is an odd thing. I hope you will rethink your decision or atleast come back after some time and be again part of a great mod and community.

Goodbye and God bless.

Reading between the lines I have to say, whatever happened to you, I hope you will overcome any impediment to reach your set goals. Life long and prosper.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

The old system favored / helped those who were already leading, and penalized those who were already "behind". For the sake of curbing snowballing and trying to "even the playfield", it was a reasonable call to change to the current system.

Unless I missed something, its still like that. Each city is grabbing the global median, modify it with its own needs modifiers and then compare it with the real yield per citizen outcome. If you lead in tech, you have more buildings which make the city more effective and with it, your population more happy.
The major change was the addition of an additional layer of happiness/unhappiness comparison on the level of the cities. As long as enough cities or global sources could deliver enough happiness to compensate the unhappiness of some of your cities, nothing bad was happening (in previous version). Now, cities wich big unhappiness suffer from that, even if your total happiness is above any threshold. Its an increase in complexity and micromanagement. If you like that or not is up to you.

 

[Cat-du-fromage]

wow i don't know if someone will see my post in this typhoon ^^', but i try.....

Do you find the issue that make the modpack maker (multiplayer Workaround) bug? (github issue#6241)

It makes me quite nervous since we won't be able to play in multiplayer for the next version of VP if this problem is not fix.

 

[amateurgamer88]

wow i don't know if someone will see my post in this typhoon ^^', but i try.....

Do you find the issue that make the modpack maker (multiplayer Workaround) bug? (github issue#6241)

It makes me quite nervous since we won't be able to play in multiplayer for the next version of VP if this problem is not fix.

I have the same issue and I've been making modpacks for my own games for awhile. I don't know of a fix but it's definitely something that only happens to me with this version and none of the prior versions.

 

[Guynemer]

As the resident physician here, I prescribe everyone some goddamn kitten time and a good stiff drink of the brown liquor of your choice.

Lordy loo.

 

[Kim Dong Un]

As the resident physician here, I prescribe everyone some goddamn kitten time and a good stiff drink of the brown liquor of your choice.

Lordy loo.

Supreme Leader doesn't have kittens, he has sharks with laser beams attached to their freakin' heads - their cuteness will have to suffice.

 

[tu_79]

Is there something in the air? What on earth is going on with folks in this thread? Case of the Mondays? Everyone needs to chill! Goodness.

G

Can't say what's going on, but I'm witnessing this same things in other forums I am following. People are eager for a change. People take on personal attacks (nothing new) but suddenly they are getting tired of trying to be polite. People just getting angry and leaving is a trend everywhere.
Climate change? Trump's failed impeachment?
Recently the highest european tribunal of human rights has decided that it is ok to deny all rights to immigrants that do not use the legal entrance, ignoring that the legal entrance is not available for most immigrants. Fascism runs rampant in Europe again, since the other parties are failing to provide hope for the future. Future is not looking good, so maybe it's time to go back to what matters.

I support taking breaks from the game. It's tiresome. There are other games that I want to play, and VP is just too demanding. But I end up coming back, since it is still a fun game.
I can only imagine how hard it is to maintain a modmod for the ever changing VP (the same reason I dropped off the idea of translating the mod). I am just grateful for those that are leaving but let their mods open there for anyone interested in their maintenance.

 

[Guynemer]

Whatever gets you through these trying times, Glorious Supreme Leader Who Makes The Sun Rise.

 

[Kim Dong Un]

But I end up coming back, since it is still a fun game.

Just one more turn...

 

[Cool2002]

I'm not really going to argue any one change ,but I think the archer range is what people are talking about most? I've only played parts of one game but the starting warrior and pathfinder changes made barbs a non issue. I kinda get why they were buffed but it was easy to destroy camps before much could spawn.

Terracotta might be a bit too good now and it's a wonder I'd always want out of other ancient/classical wonders. Maybe thats just from my style of play though. Sword changes i wasn't able to mess with since my continent had no iron somehow but I wouldn't want to face highly promoted ai ones.now. Tribute changes i need more time to figure out. Is there a way to show what the maximum tribute possible so we get a better idea of where we stand threat wise?

 

[Crag Hack]

Unless I missed something, its still like that. Each city is grabbing the global median, modify it with its own needs modifiers and then compare it with the real yield per citizen outcome. If you lead in tech, you have more buildings which make the city more effective and with it, your population more happy.
The major change was the addition of an additional layer of happiness/unhappiness comparison on the level of the cities. As long as enough cities or global sources could deliver enough happiness to compensate the unhappiness of some of your cities, nothing bad was happening (in previous version). Now, cities wich big unhappiness suffer from that, even if your total happiness is above any threshold. Its an increase in complexity and micromanagement. If you like that or not is up to you.

Yes the system is the same with global medians and each city comparing to them in order to determine the city unhappiness.

But I notice something weird about empire happiness. So the empire happiness is the sum of the cities happiness. If 3 city in the empire each has 2 happiness, then empire is 2+2+2. Similarly for unhappiness; it is the sum of each city unhappiness.

But here is strange - each city has so called "luxury happiness". So when we add city happiness to arrive at the empire happiness, we basically are dual accounting the same luxuries for each city. This way if you spam many cities, you will be adding the same luxuries over and over for each city. Let's say I spam 15 cities and my empire has 5 luxuries, then my empire happiness will be the sum of 15*5=75 luxury happiness . Plus there will be some other non-luxury sources but the bulk comes from double counting, or 15-fold counting of each luxury.

So the game hugely rewards wide empires. In general wide empires will have many luxuries and on top of that will have many cities as well for some monster empire happiness. Tall empires are doomed.

A more better idea maybe should be to count luxuries only once. This can be achieved if we attribute each luxury to the city which territory to luxury is inside. Then you can add each city luxury without dual accounting.

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

I thought this was changed.

Spoiler CS giving a quest to capture it's ally city :

EDIT : lol, i just read some of the replies ..... what's going on with this thread ? you guys okay ?

 

[Misanthrop]

It has been from a while. The only guarantee solution is just spending them. I was just tricked on Emperor as well: one of my vassals managed to steal 1'047g/1'380g in my capital with a counterspy lv III and a Constabulary built. Annoying to say the least.

I'm leader in tech and score (closing the game but Domination victory so need more time to mop them up) and all AIs send spies in my capital but really I want the tools to effectively stop them.

Well, 2k gold is not much if you have an army to upgrade. The thing is, on previous version I also dreaded the inevitable gold steals, but iirc they were somewhere between 10% and 30% of my gold, which was annoying and impactful, but still manageable. So I don't know if this patch changed it, or if I simply got particularly unlucky this game, but having more than 80% of your funds stolen seems rather excessive. It fundamentally changes how you have to approach your gold management as you can't rely on stockpiling for even relatively short periods of time to rush crucial buildings or upgrades.

 

[ASCII Guy]

I have no clue what's going on in this thread, but it really is a shame. People should not be this upset about a beta release. Perhaps some people are burnt out. I don't blame them, this game has been out since September 21st of 2010. We're all here to have fun, no reason to have such heated arguments.

 

[Recursive]

I thought this was changed.

Spoiler CS giving a quest to capture it's ally city :

View attachment 546391

EDIT : lol, i just read some of the replies ..... what's going on with this thread ? you guys okay ?

Report it on Github.

Can't say I'm happy with the recent discussion, nor can I speak for anyone else. But I'm sticking around, no worries there.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

I have no clue what's going on in this thread, but it really is a shame. People should not be this upset about a beta release. Perhaps some people are burnt out. I don't blame them, this game has been out since September 21st of 2010. We're all here to have fun, no reason to have such heated arguments.

To clarify, it has nothing to do with this current beta release, so yes, discussing this here is a bit wrong placed.
Iam not the friend of the 1-range archer change, neither of the chopping change or whirling around the parts in enhancers. But this doesnt matter.
It looks like I am not the only one who is not that happy about the approach to achieve a development and balance in the mod. And this not only since the last stable version, but now for longer times.
For example, you'd think that the pantheons (with the exception God of Commerce and God of Wisdom) haven't changed essentially for years, are finally reaching their final status, and yet we see a long list of changes here. I dont know which aspect of the game has changed that greatly to make a rebalancing of the pantheons necessary, but couldnt the status gold not be already achieved a long time ago, if you would focus on it?

Not beta or even last stable version related changes worry me, but more essential questions how we could create goals and then tools to achieve a "gold" status.

Edit: (for pantheons, I tried such approach, and it was indicating some tendencies but agree, too few people have contributed to the thread https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/pantheon-rating.642454/ )

 

[Gazebo]

For example, you'd think that the pantheons (with the exception God of Commerce and God of Wisdom) haven't changed essentially for years, are finally reaching their final status, and yet we see a long list of changes here. I dont know which aspect of the game has changed that greatly to make a rebalancing of the pantheons necessary, but couldnt the status gold not be already achieved a long time ago, if you would focus on it?

Except that fairly recently we shook up the Ancient tech tree to make all starts more viable and enjoyable (a highly popular decision), which had knock-on effects on pantheon choices and early build priorities.

>but couldnt the status gold not be already achieved a long time ago, if you would focus on it?
I don't know exactly what you're trying to say here, but - if I am correct - you think that 'focusing' on something means it'll become balanced? Unfortunately civ is not a game in which this is possible, as all of the systems are far too interconnected. Change one thing, another thing needs to be addressed. Etc. etc.

G

 

[Crag Hack]

I must disagree with people who want Archers with range 2. If you make archers with arrows range 2 then you must make the Light Tank, the Cosack, and the Hussar range 2 as well. Since when arrows have higher range than light tanks on the battlefield ? How come arrow units from the Ancient era have higher range than Light Tanks and rifle horsemen in much later eras ?