New Beta Version - January 3rd (1/3)

[Stalker0]

Gold costs go up quite a bit for purchasing post-industrial - having over 1k gold per turn means you can comfortably upgrade/purchase a unit or two every turn.

For context, in my recent China King game (playing Tradition), upgrades my frigates to cruisers cost 1500 Gold each. And I was making about ~600-700 GPT with 4 cities.

Since small tradition games tend to be more gold lite, this is a good lower end metric for what it looks like.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

I think you're wrong on the efficacy of the nerf, but I don't intend to try and convince you. Gold costs go up quite a bit for purchasing post-industrial - having over 1k gold per turn means you can comfortably upgrade/purchase a unit or two every turn. That's fine. Don't worry about the amount of GPT if it matches with the demand for Gold at that time.

G

Tell me, if you have done this, but you didnt have doubled the maintenance cost, or? And even if you have nerfed the gold generation by industry, iam still earning additional 700-1200 gold per turn by events.
Iam fine if we are starting to tune down gold generation for lategame, step by step. But I can tell you already, nerfing bank and increasing maintenance cost is only scratching the problem.

For context, in my recent China King game (playing Tradition), upgrades my frigates to cruisers cost 1500 Gold each. And I was making about ~600-700 GPT with 4 cities.

Since small tradition games tend to be more gold lite, this is a good lower end metric for what it looks like.

Which map size do you play? 4 cities sounds like way to few, even for tradition.
Iam playing on small map size, perfectworld3, and here are 6 civilizations with 40 cities total. (CS not counted).

 

[Stalker0]

Which map size do you play? 4 cities sounds like way to few, even for tradition.
Iam playing on small map size, perfectworld3, and here are 6 civilizations with 40 cities total. (CS not counted).

I'm playing on standard, and I agree its a small size even for Tradition. I found 4 very nice spots to settle, and the way the map worked out I just never found the need to push another one. I'm mostly on top this game, and another city wouldn't help all that much. So when I say this is low end, I feel its definately on the low end.

 

[Drakul]

• Specialists produce .34 unhappiness (was .25) - so 3 specialists = 1 unhappiness

What about to make it .29 unhappiness ? And rising food demand consumption of specialists by 70-80% ? Currently settling in a area with plain tiles in the middle of Siberia is almost the same as settling in area like Nile delta with the fertile flood plains. Considering that in the late game you need all the culture/tourism generators to keep up with the AI who sometimes skyrockets with culture and tourism per turn.

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[Txurce]

Playing Immortal/Communitas/standard, my America is the only civ to have chosen Progress. Sweden chose Authority, the rest (including Russia, Germany and the Shoshone) Tradition. On t192 I am third in score thanks to one war and 11 quick cities, trail the three top civs in policies by 2, and rank 7th in tech, 8 behind Russia. My position is fine for now, but the heavy lean toward Tradition is worth noting.

 

[ElliotS]

That oracle yield is at the same level as a circus, right? 300 culture?

Yeah new oracle is 100% worthless. I would make it give as much culture as your next policy costs, or a similar amount.

 

[Txurce]

Yeah new oracle is 100% worthless. I would make it give as much culture as your next policy costs, or a similar amount.

Isn't that putting it back where it was?

Some middle ground, like a a reduction in future policy costs, or just a simple boost in culture, seems more appropriate.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Isn't that putting it back where it was?

Some middle ground, like a a reduction in future policy costs, or just a simple boost in culture, seems more appropriate.

No, you would get also a policy, but the necessary culture for your next policy would rise, instead staying the same.

 

[tu_79]

Oracle could be like a writer x 2, immediate culture depending on the last 7 turns of culture.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Perhaps the Oracle could grant 2 great writers?

 

[ElliotS]

Isn't that putting it back where it was?

Some middle ground, like a a reduction in future policy costs, or just a simple boost in culture, seems more appropriate.

Yeah the problem is not increasing cost of next policy imo.

I wouldn't be AGAINST giving it a cool effect and less culture, but % policy cost reduction isn't it. What about +5(?) to holy sites, and a 25% discount on future great prophets?

 

[Deadstarre]

a 25% discount on future great prophets

i'd been thinking about making that the fealty finisher in place of an ability to buy great artists in industrial, and moving great artists to rationalism finisher, taking great scientist purchases off the table from policies

 

[CrabHelmet]

Holy Sites don't need any more buffing.

 

[ElliotS]

Holy Sites don't need any more buffing.

I'm not talking about in general, I'm talking about as an effect of oracle. (instead of mass culture)

Would be interesting and powerful, and could be used well in some strats.

 

[Infixo]

Is Songhai so good or are we giving AI too many bonuses? They do Farming in 3 main cities because they built literally everyhing there was to build. They also don't build units (already reached supply limit, edit: +4 over). They have 17 techs, little behind the average of 19 at the moment. 6 policies (full Authority), in line with others (6-7). They are not over supply, it is just human view.

 

[CrabHelmet]

I'm not talking about in general, I'm talking about as an effect of oracle. (instead of mass culture)

Would be interesting and powerful, and could be used well in some strats.

I know you don't mean in general, but I stand by it: Holy Sites already have too many options to increase their yields. They become frankly astonishing tiles worth working over literally anything else, which is bad from both a balance perspective and a flavour perspective. Is Santiago de Compostela the absolute cornerstone of the Spanish economy and culture? No.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Is Songhai so good or are we giving AI too many bonuses? They do Farming in 3 main cities because they built literally everyhing there was to build. They also can't build units (already reached supply limit). They have 17 techs, little behind the average of 19 at the moment. 6 policies (full Authority), in line with others (6-7). They are not over supply, it is just human view.

They are NOT over supply???
WTH..... You think its ok, giving AI 33% more unit supply cap? Which difficultyis this?

 

[Infixo]

And Aztecs the same situation. 18 techs, 6 policies (Authority). 4 cities built literally everything. Even Puppet Adrianople.

 

[Infixo]

They are NOT over supply???
WTH..... You think its ok, giving AI 33% more unit supply cap? Which difficultyis this?

Emperor. I've checked few turn later and they were 4 units over supply to be exact. And Montezuma from my next picture is 2 units over.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Emperor. I've checked few turn later and they were 4 units over supply to be exact. And Montezuma from my next picture is 2 units over.

So its 25% more supply cap on emperor. Looks a bit unfair to me, do you think this is a good choice? Finished now my germany game from a previous patch, some of the other civs had some gold issues even in lategame. Maybe caused by too many units too.
Recently started a game with the new version and I started near 2 oases, meeting first a commercial CS and was able to purchase monument, shrine and granary. Leading to the result, I created 3 buildings while i was in the mid of researching my second technology and nothing new was invented. This feels absolutly wrong and for me, this makes absolutly no sense.