New Beta Version - July 15th (7/15)

[Recursive]

Be that as it may, Byzantium has 2 bonuses which do the same thing as each other. Why not have 1 bonus that does 1 thing, instead of 2 bonuses that do 1 thing?

The symmetry adds another level of silliness -- a 15% discount on faith purchases is functionally indistinguishable from having 17.6% more faith to spend (1/0.85=1.176). Going from 0.5/ on basilica to 0.33/ is a difference of 17%. Granted, they have faith from other sources, but this is their main one. Does this not look strange to people? We've gone from having 1 bonus that gives a lot of faith, then G added a second bonus that makes each point of faith 15% more valuable, and now he has nerfed the UB so it generates 17% less faith. So now we have 2 bonuses that put us in almost the exact same place we were before with 1 bonus. All that has been accomplished is offloading a bit of the civ's power from the UB to the UA. Same civ, double the complexity.

Personally, I'm not understanding the problem at all. Almost every if not every civ has overlapping synergy between their bonuses, Byzantium isn't really an outlier. In addition, the total bonus given by the UB depends on how many cities you have in your empire, whereas the 15% discount is always a 15% discount.

I don't have any trouble at all understanding that there's a 15% discount on purchases and also a building which gives Faith. I think you're making a mountain out a molehill, dude.

The AI apparently only starts with one pathfinder even on Deity, unless I'm misinterpreting something. Go into MODS-->Community Balance Overhaul (2) ---> Balance Changes ----> Difficulty ----> Difficulty Mod (XML).You should see this line near the bottom for the Deity handicap.
<AIStartingExploreUnits>1</AIStartingExploreUnits>

Well the AI are definitely starting with 2 scouts...either that or they are getting the second scout up 4 times as fast as a human can. Is there some other place in the settings this would be referenced? I agree with you that in that place, it certainly states "1".

If you'll look at lower difficulty settings you'll notice the line <StartingExploreUnits> isn't there. AI gets an extra Pathfinder on higher difficulties, in addition to the Pathfinder it already gets.

 

[CrazyG]

My initial opinion of the Aztecs right now is that everything changed, and nothing changed, but something changed. I mean it's respective parts, that is.

• It's neat to get a free GA and not have the cost and progress of a new one wiped. Base FG +10% Food/Production during GA seems to wreck Distress as I don't think I saw any then
  
• 150% per kill falls off as I get wider, but not as as hard. I'm feeling it helps me getting religious stuff more now, and thats's nice
• Jag as an UU is not really worth upgrading to Pikeman on it's own merit, I just use Knights + Trebs + Crossbows + Landsknechts, those promotions are way too situational to not just switch to Landsknechts for more comfort of usage unless I have really high level Jags which likely won't do anything impressive anyway
  
• the warmongering CS% penalty hurts, I cannot go full apocalypto
• Mel Gibzebo why

I honestly don't think they are as good as most of the civs I play as warmongerers and I'd rather be playing Oda or Napoleon anyway

Spoiler :

that or William, not many seem to know what a sick warmongerer he is, with a UA that stays strong even if you expand as long as you get a vassal or five to trade with, that also has a potentially great UI and best naval uu in the game

, but it's okay.

I think you are over-looking how awful it feels to play France during the Ancient era.

Aztec can get a hilariously fast religion. Back when it was 600 faith, I remember getting a great prophet on turn 32 (standard speed). God of war will earn you insane faith for kills, and you can tribute CS pretty easily too. The goal is to get a really fast relgion, get tons of science and culture from killing, building the Floating Gardens disgustingly early, then stay ahead in city development. You can also grab high impact wonders to try and assist your late game, like Hanging Gardens (good luck building those with Japan)

 

[BiteInTheMark]

There is definitly something wrong with barbarian science raiding....
I have only my capitol which generate 8 science and one attack from a barbarian stole 35 science from me...
Also gold.... 7 total generation in my capitol, they stole 24 from me, and 13 cultue while I generate only 5.... this is silly.

Standard speed, map, emperor

 

[76ers]

There is definitly something wrong with barbarian science raiding....
I have only my capitol which generate 8 science and one attack from a barbarian stole 35 science from me...
Also gold.... 7 total generation in my capitol, they stole 24 from me, and 13 cultue while I generate only 5.... this is silly.

Standard speed, map, emperor

I thought maybe it was a glitch with having barbarians evolved when it first happened to me. They are doing an absurd amount of damage to the city too. I had 2 barbarian brutes show up. I lost 59 science, nearly 7 turns worth, and 59 food. My city health dropped in half from these 2 brutes. Killed them both right away. Next turn an axe thrower and another brute made it through and they took it down to about 1/10th health. Next turn I let one sneak through and it took the city which they can do with the BE Mod. I played another game with that mod off to see if it was the mod that was the issue. Had raging barbarians turned on and when they would get through they were taking 30 gold or more each time. A couple times they did seem to take a normal amount but other times the loss was outrageous and the damage to the city obscene. One single brute on one turn cut my expansion's health in half. Also the barbarians are taking way more damage than normal when standing next to the city when this happens.

Here is the screenshot when the axe thrower and brute took my city health down to around 1/10th. This is normally a minor inconvenience that happens with nightmare mode on and barbarians ignoring zone of control.

 

[John.B.C]

I like it, authority civs shouldn't exploit their policy through picking "raging barbarians/barbarians evolved" etc. Finally the barbarians strike back!

 

[tu_79]

I like it, authority civs shouldn't exploit their policy through picking "raging barbarians/barbarians evolved" etc. Finally the barbarians strike back!

It did hurt because we were unaware. Let them try again!

 

[BiteInTheMark]

It did hurt because we were unaware. Let them try again!

But stealing 3-5 turns global amount of gold/science/culture is ridicoulus.
Nothing in changelog mentioned barbarians stealing now complete parts of my city instead of only plundering my corn chambers.

 

[adac]

I thought maybe it was a glitch with having barbarians evolved when it first happened to me. They are doing an absurd amount of damage to the city too. I had 2 barbarian brutes show up. I lost 59 science, nearly 7 turns worth, and 59 food. My city health dropped in half from these 2 brutes. Killed them both right away. Next turn an axe thrower and another brute made it through and they took it down to about 1/10th health. Next turn I let one sneak through and it took the city which they can do with the BE Mod. I played another game with that mod off to see if it was the mod that was the issue. Had raging barbarians turned on and when they would get through they were taking 30 gold or more each time. A couple times they did seem to take a normal amount but other times the loss was outrageous and the damage to the city obscene. One single brute on one turn cut my expansion's health in half. Also the barbarians are taking way more damage than normal when standing next to the city when this happens.

Here is the screenshot when the axe thrower and brute took my city health down to around 1/10th. This is normally a minor inconvenience that happens with nightmare mode on and barbarians ignoring zone of control.

Agreed, barbarians seem to be hitting cities much harder. I had an Axethrower steal 60 production(!!) during the ancient era (I literally had 3 or 4 techs, this was very early in the game). Not sure if bug or intentional, but I learned quickly to not ever let them get next to cities if at all possible, because 60p hurts before you even have wells.

 

[Kim Dong Un]

Agreed, barbarians seem to be hitting cities much harder. I had an Axethrower steal 60 production(!!) during the ancient era (I literally had 3 or 4 techs, this was very early in the game). Not sure if bug or intentional, but I learned quickly to not ever let them get next to cities if at all possible, because 60p hurts before you even have wells.

It's clearly a bug. I had the same happen as well, but with food.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Wasn't tile pillaging meant to change? I got 3 or 4 Gold on epic speed for Academy, then I pillaged Manufactory and got 50 or 70. Wasn't it meant to be more consistent and at different values?

 

[Mad Madigan]

Yes, tile pillaging base values were rescaled and balanced across the different tile types, and I believe they also scale with era now.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Can confirm the Barbarian Bug, on turn 18 a single Barbarian warrior halved my city's HP/health and looted over 60 food, all in one turn.

 

[Gazebo]

Wasn't tile pillaging meant to change? I got 3 or 4 Gold on epic speed for Academy, then I pillaged Manufactory and got 50 or 70. Wasn't it meant to be more consistent and at different values?

It uses the formula outlined on the pillaging thread.

G

 

[ElliotS]

It uses the formula outlined on the pillaging thread.

G

The formula should be +-25% of the expected values. He's saying it's far outside those bounds. I haven't been able to check yet.

 

[Gazebo]

The formula should be +-25% of the expected values. He's saying it's far outside those bounds. I haven't been able to check yet.

if (MOD_BALANCE_CORE_MILITARY_PROMOTION_ADVANCED)
                {
                    int iEra = GET_PLAYER(getOwner()).GetCurrentEra();
                    if (iEra <= 0)
                        iEra = 1;

                    iPillageGold = 3 + (pkImprovement->GetPillageGold() * iEra * (((75 + GC.getGame().getSmallFakeRandNum(50, *plot())) / 100)));
                    iPillageGold += (getPillageChange() * iPillageGold) / 100;
                }

formula I used. new pillagegold values were @pineappledan 's

G

 

[pineappledan]

3 gold for an academy shouldn't be possible with even the worst luck using the new formula... The lowest you should be able to get is 17

See the formula here

 

[Moi Magnus]

3 gold for an academy shouldn't be possible with even the worst luck using the new formula... The lowest you should be able to get is 17

See the formula here

If you look at the formula, 3 gold is exactly the value you would obtain if the improvement value of the academy was 0. Maybe the academy was forgotten in the list of improvements?

 

[CppMaster]

If you look at the formula, 3 gold is exactly the value you would obtain if the improvement value of the academy was 0. Maybe the academy was forgotten in the list of improvements?

Or a typo

 

[Gazebo]

If you look at the formula, 3 gold is exactly the value you would obtain if the improvement value of the academy was 0. Maybe the academy was forgotten in the list of improvements?

Not forgotten.

G

 

[admfischer]

The barbarian bug is real for me - and it can kill the AI. In my recent tradition Austrian campaign the Americans jumped onto me and I defeated them all, and as I pushed back, capturing their cities one by one I noticed how their holy city of New York has reddish hp, eventually succumbing to the barbarians; Turns out a nearby city state was suffering from a barbarian invasion, and for some reason the invaders are attacking New York instead of the targeted city state.