New Beta Version - March 2nd (3-2)

[CrazyG]

So .... Enrico is trying to build a wonder ..... in his puppet.

Spoiler Not a good idea, bro. :

View attachment 593035

Oddly enough, I think trying the pyramids in a puppet would actually be a good idea.

When you fail a wonder, you get some culture as compensation, and it's a bonus yield which means no puppet penalty. Early game its a decent amount. That culture would be worth the lost production in a puppet IMO.

 

[Stalker0]

Standard Immortal Communitas_79 as Siam. Surrender on Turn 272.

Spoiler :

So after showing some wins of late, figured got to put in some losses every so often to balance the books. This was one of those games where I just could not make friends. The Ottomans, Mayans, and Polynesia (and weirdly Brazil for some reason) decided that I had to die. War after war after war after war, sometimes together, sometimes separately, but they throw in whenever they could. Didn't matter what I did, I wasn't even in that great a position as you can see on score.

This game is not hopeless but its drained my spirit. I'm starting to get outteched again, my spies this game were lame ducks and couldn't steal a single tech. I couldn't hold any CSes, they would just get sniped back but one of my rivals. I lost 2 wonders by 1 turn, hehe we've all had those kind of games. I will also say the AI's citadel incursions near lampang caught me off guard. I am used to the AI sniping at my borders with GGs, but I didn't really consider the new military position it granted the Ottomans in this game, so when he brought this new attack against me (which was like....his 5th I think at this point), he had a really solid siege position that I couldn't break. So I think I'll put this one to bed and start a new one.

I will note that I tried Artistry this game over Statecraft just to see. Its only one game, but there are a couple of important notes that I saw:

1) Wonders: Statecraft has a better time getting wonders at this phase in the game for a few reasons. One, that extra early spy usually means that my tech is more competitive. Now artistry's science may help catch back up later, but that's too late for the wonder races in these eras. Also, even getting to ignore 1 culture prereq for a wonder is really good. Yes artistry has more culture, but I don't think its a full policy ahead level at this point.

2) Religion: For someone wanting to go power religion, using artistry for an extra Great Prophet is actually pretty darn solid. Realistically you need GPs to make any traction with a competition rival religion, and they are pretty expensive at this point in the game, so having a bonus one is pretty solid.

 

[adac]

Is Vox Populi (3-2).exe (the one on the first page) still the latest? Or is there a hotfix somewhere in these 23 pages? I did skim through but I could easily have missed it.

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

Just a minor misinformation in the wiki entry for mines.
Uranium is connected by quarries not mines.

Spoiler :

 

[Recursive]

Just a minor misinformation in the wiki entry for mines.

Spoiler :

View attachment 593349

Fixed, but bug reports go on Github.

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

Finally had the guts to step up from Immortal to Diety and i have to say that i did not expect the difference to be so steep.
Playing as Japan I do hit My own milestones roughly in the same time i usually do (founding a religion before 130 on epic, 3 or 4 cities by turn 100, 4 or 5 spears at 100, swordsmen and catapults rush 130~140 to take the nearest capital but it failed miserably against the incredibly well placed Korean capitla in an absurd defensive position) but the AI is just so far ahead and i can't seem to be able to catchup by the time i usually do.
For the record Ethiopia got to medieval era at turn 130 epic speed before even all of the religions were founded and got a vassal almost immediately.
Polynesia with 11 cities, 7 wonders ,respectable military and the, 2nd in terms of science&score and the first in policies peacfully submitted to be Atilla's vassal pushing Atilla from 3rd to first.
Also it happens to be one of those games when no matter what i do, my cities will just be unhappy so producing units or going to war against the militarily superior Polynesia is out of the way too.
Although it's very likely, I don't want to call it a loss and start over yet but clearly there is still room for me to improve.

 

[skodkim]

So many interesting fixes on Github - yet another good job it seems

Eagerly awaiting a release (no word yet?)

\Skodkim

 

[Grassland Farm]

Yeah, much like Skodkim I'm a bit nervously awaiting the next version. I know my way around modding a few games and I've used .cpp before, but I'm clueless as how to compile it into a .dll.
I don't want to sound impolite - In fact, I might as well thank you straight up for your work, which I don't do enough - but know that there's likely a handful of frustrated nerds refreshing their browser a few times a day for a new version, just like me.

 

[CrazyG]

1) Wonders: Statecraft has a better time getting wonders at this phase in the game for a few reasons. One, that extra early spy usually means that my tech is more competitive. Now artistry's science may help catch back up later, but that's too late for the wonder races in these eras. Also, even getting to ignore 1 culture prereq for a wonder is really good. Yes artistry has more culture, but I don't think its a full policy ahead level at this point.

I'm not sure how appropriate artistry is for siam. He doesn't have strong culture (I believe city-state culture doesn't get multiplied by golden ages). I usually view city-state and artistry as opposites, artistry doesn't have the spare production or gold to build many diplomatic units.

If people are interested I'll write an artistry guide this week.

 

[youngsteve]

One area that I don't feel the mod balances right is regarding gold & the ease/difficulty in gaining it. For some reason there is a bigger advantage of obtaining large amounts of gold for your civilization by selling resources on high levels, but the lower you go down the harder it is to do so. I am not saying it is game breaking but early on when you need money to buy troops, upgrade them or for uses it is difficult to do so as no one else has much gold to sell to. Contrast this when I watch people playing on Diety they are swamped with money mainly due to the AI being given massive amounts of gold. Isn't this a bit silly that the higher level you play the easier it is to make money. I think one of the problems is on higher levels the AI doesn't spend it so pays silly amounts on deals with player, which they don't have on lower levels, until later in the game.

 

[azum4roll]

One area that I don't feel the mod balances right is regarding gold & the ease/difficulty in gaining it. For some reason there is a bigger advantage of obtaining large amounts of gold for your civilization by selling resources on high levels, but the lower you go down the harder it is to do so. I am not saying it is game breaking but early on when you need money to buy troops, upgrade them or for uses it is difficult to do so as no one else has much gold to sell to. Contrast this when I watch people playing on Diety they are swamped with money mainly due to the AI being given massive amounts of gold. Isn't this a bit silly that the higher level you play the easier it is to make money. I think one of the problems is on higher levels the AI doesn't spend it so pays silly amounts on deals with player, which they don't have on lower levels, until later in the game.

Or high difficulty AIs could use a lower gold/maintenance discount

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

Does the AI get bonuses to the number of trade routes available? In my game Korea (Not a single wonder) which is in the Renaissance era has 11 trade routes connected to my cities.

 

[DeAnno]

and weirdly Brazil for some reason

When Brazil is hateful Brazil is super-hateful. Once I started with him as my only neighbor, but not the super-close territory vibes. For the sole crime of building Stonehenge he immediately denounced me and hated me forever.

 

[tommytoxen]

Interception grabs 'best' interceptor first, and works way down, so yes, works as you want already.

For planes, idea is to allow fighters to be a little more generic, and for bombers to be a bit more explicitly anti-city (if promoted that way). Fighters were otherwise too weak against everything except air, now they're a bit more general purpose.

Loving the sound of this, I like a bit of 'realism' with my Civ games I used to use bombers exclusively on carriers because fighters were pretty much useless, even though in real life fighters are used against troop positions. Might give me a reason to fit my carriers with fighters now!

 

[Stalker0]

I think its weird that sometimes the partisans you get from razing a city are Knights (aka the top tier strategic unit of its time) as opposed to....like a pikeman. These are supposed to militia rebels, not a cache of super soldiers.

Spoiler :

 

[Stalker0]

I've mentioned before how money can sometimes be a real struggle when your sanctioned. Here is a good example.

Spoiler :

I've got almost all of my cities working all merchants and running wealth processes, and I'm barely making ends meat (and note my military supply isn't even all that high at the moment). I have to hope to get to stock exchanges at some point here, but I've you can see I'm a little busy at the moment.

 

[azum4roll]

Wow, that's a HUGE desert. Are you satisfied with the amount of production in the current desert?

Agribusiness would help with the gold needs, but you don't have enough horses either...

 

[Stalker0]

Agribusiness would help with the gold needs, but you don't have enough horses either...

Agribusiness has a big maintenance cost though, so it doesn't help as much as it might look at first glance.

And yes, I've been very satisfied with flood plains since the recent communitas_79 changes. The extra hills give me a great balance of food and hammers. Its true that I do loss out on food triangles a good portion of the time, but quite frankly....happiness is such a big deal on Immortal in controlling my growth I don't miss the extra food one bit.

 

[Stalker0]

A good example of a common trend I am seeing from the high level AI lately. Its one of the reasons I continued to question if pioneer game expansion is ever really worth it.

Spoiler :

You'll also note the two blue spots south of this city, those were former cities of mine that France has already taken. Even though this is a reasonably defensive position, but without a navy I'm still getting clobbered. I've held off two other waves before but this one has finally broken through my land defenses and is now going for the killing blow. Because the AI is now so good at amphibious landings, you can't rely on a strong defense force necessarily anymore, as in this case as my g guns were removed through naval hits and/or amphibious lands.

The navy it takes to defend such a spot is a massive commitment. If that's what it takes to hold this spot....than I would just rather have never taken it.

 

[CrazyG]

A good example of a common trend I am seeing from the high level AI lately. Its one of the reasons I continued to question if pioneer game expansion is ever really worth it.


You'll also note the two blue spots south of this city, those were former cities of mine that France has already taken. Even though this is a reasonably defensive position, but without a navy I'm still getting clobbered. I've held off two other waves before but this one has finally broken through my land defenses and is now going for the killing blow. Because the AI is now so good at amphibious landings, you can't rely on a strong defense force necessarily anymore, as in this case as my g guns were removed through naval hits and/or amphibious lands.

The navy it takes to defend such a spot is a massive commitment. If that's what it takes to hold this spot....than I would just rather have never taken it.

It's not so bad if those cities go culture/science positive before France took them? I imagine they probably didn't.