New Beta Version - March 2nd (3-2)

[youngsteve]

I think the Great Wall is perfect where it currently is on the tech tree, as it is/was an incredible engineering feat for its time of construction. Sections of the original Great Wall still stand to this very day which is really impressive considering it was made out of nothing other than rammed earth and wood for the plains, stone for the mountain regions.

I am not disagreeing that it fits in with Engineering, but where it is placed on the tech tree makes it a magnet for warring nations to take it, which I don't think is intended. My opinion is keep it in engineering & move that up the tech tree, or make peaceful civs more inclined to get it & war mongering ones less so.

 

[Stalker0]

The AI gets supply bonus IIRC, and 45 supply in the industrial era is actually pretty low.

I'm still in Renaissance at this point, and the vast majority of my army is Tercio + 4 Musketeers I got from a CS.

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

I am not disagreeing that it fits in with Engineering, but where it is placed on the tech tree makes it a magnet for warring nations to take it, which I don't think is intended. My opinion is keep it in engineering & move that up the tech tree, or make peaceful civs more inclined to get it & war mongering ones less so.

Pretty much every single defensive wonder is in the lower half of the tech tree Including Himeji Castle and the Red Fort.
It fits there so science focused civs have actually do something to get them instead of just finding an out of place wonder handed to them on silver platter.

I'm still in Renaissance at this point, and the vast majority of my army is Tercio + 4 Musketeers I got from a CS.

In your screenshot you are currently researching industrialization a second tier Industrial era tech so you at least have researched steampower and railroad.
Also resourceless mines yielding 8 production and lumbermills with no adjacency bonuses getting 6 production compared to the CS lumbermill only yielding 4 meaning you have also researched metallurgy.
Edit: You are building Neuschwanstein in Argos too; definitely in the industrial era.

 

[Noob Fanboy]

What he means is that even though he's Industrial era, his military techs are still Renaissance ones. I think the issue is that he doesn't have Arsenal on the cities and he doesn't have wonders like Terracotta Army, Great Wall or Red Fort. On my last run at that point without terracotta army i would probably have a similar supply cap

 

[stii]

I mean while his army could be better he still clearly could protect a CS. The military power scaling is a bit crazy. Upgrading your whole army doesn't change the demo very much anyway, it mostly seems to be city strength.

 

[skodkim]

Any eta on the new release?

\Skodkim

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

I mean while his army could be better he still clearly could protect a CS. The military power scaling is a bit crazy. Upgrading your whole army doesn't change the demo very much anyway, it mostly seems to be city strength.

It's not an issue in my experience (besides very early in the game) if you can keep an up to date army close to your supply limit.
I disagree with that last point ... Tercio to Fusilier is +50%CS .... knight to lancer is roughly +50% CS and it does show and affect both tributing and protection.

 

[Stalker0]

In your screenshot you are currently researching industrialization a second tier Industrial era tech so you at least have researched steampower and railroad.
Also resourceless mines yielding 8 production and lumbermills with no adjacency bonuses getting 6 production compared to the CS lumbermill only yielding 4 meaning you have also researched metallurgy.
Edit: You are building Neuschwanstein in Argos too; definitely in the industrial era.

No your spot on. While I first saw pledge warnings in renaissance I did not take the screenshot until later, so I will agree my concern is faulty for the time period I made it. I'll need to see as my supply swells up if I can regain that military power.

 

[dostillevi]

I don't know how feasible it'd be, but I'd love if pledge to protect considered nearby military force rather than global force. So if I, as a regional power, wanted to protect my neighboring city state, I could, despite some powerful warmongers on a continent half way around the world. I think there might be some war declaration logic that works similarly to this, or perhaps the tribute logic could be adapted to look at a larger nearby area to determine overall military strength from each empire nearby, at the time the Pledge to Protect is made.

Edit: To take this further, the range should be map size based, and could get larger depending on the era (approximating military force projection). It could be based on military units near the city state, or could do some calculation where total military power of a civ is weighted based on cities owned per civ near the city state, if we want a protection pledge to work a little differently than tribute mechanics.

 

[Recursive]

Something has definitively happened to the AI's Wonder and Religion Competitiveness.

On Immortal, I am bagging wonders much later than I used to. And I used to have a Turn 100 cutoff for religion (aka if I wasn't getting my religion before Turn 100 I had almost no chance to found). Now I can comfortably found by Turn 110, I even founded on Turn 125 one time!

I wonder if its the new AI flavor, if competitiveness in those areas went down?

No, it isn't the new flavors.

 

[Kim Dong Un]

No, it isn't the new flavors.

FWIW, I've played 2 games with this patch, aiming for CV in each, and both games had civs (Egypt and Korea) wonder spamming to the point where they finished with several more wonders each than me. This is on King, and I can't imagine Sejong's wonder flavor being that crazy -- he's coincidentally on the verge of a CV, but his huge tech lead was start to finish, allowing him to build whatever he pleased -- so I'd say the AI is definitely still building them.

 

[Grassland Farm]

I'll straight up disable all vassalisation for my next game, pending a fix or an option to disable voluntary vassalage only. My last game wasn't even a case of "get away from a losing war by seeking protection", just straight up "hey I'll give you 20% of my stuff bro".

 

[andersw]

FWIW, I've played 2 games with this patch, aiming for CV in each, and both games had civs (Egypt and Korea) wonder spamming to the point where they finished with several more wonders each than me. This is on King, and I can't imagine Sejong's wonder flavor being that crazy -- he's coincidentally on the verge of a CV, but his huge tech lead was start to finish, allowing him to build whatever he pleased -- so I'd say the AI is definitely still building them.

Yes depends a bit what era and what civ, I had polynesia grab 5-6 in my recent game but atmost one was early wonder, most was renaissance.

 

[Jiggly]

Couple of issues I have been noticing. Not sure if they are new features or bugs:

1. Religious Pressure on Diety doesn't align at all with the amount of actual pressure that should be seemingly exerted. Essentially players even without Orthodoxy and with about equal levels of cities and religion buildings are exerting massive amounts of religious pressure. Is this a change in difficulty or does it sound like somethings wrong?

2. I can't seem to keep my units fortified. If there are enemies around it asks me to re-command them every turn. If there are no enemies around they stay fortified. I actually cant tell if its undoing the fortify buff or not (is there a way to tell if a unit is properly fortified?)

Thanks

 

[Rean]

1. It's been fine for me. But Religious Pressure has been weird in the past so god knows, it's beyond my comprehension.
2. Sounds like you're putting them on alert. You can also straight up fortify them and they won't react to nearby units.

 

[Jiggly]

1. It's been fine for me. But Religious Pressure has been weird in the past so god knows, it's beyond my comprehension.
2. Sounds like you're putting them on alert. You can also straight up fortify them and they won't react to nearby units.

Yeah at first I thought I was misclicking alert somehow but I am actually putting them on Fortify (F) and even when I manually click fortify the same thing happens.

 

[usadefcon1]

So if I, as a regional power, wanted to protect my neighboring city state, I could, despite some powerful warmongers on a continent half way around the world.

I feel that happiness could use a distance modifier as well. Why do my people care about another culture half way around the world? Every era it could get less and less restrictive.

 

[Stalker0]

Standard Immortal Greece on Communitas_79 (no ruins). DV on Turn 385.

Spoiler :

I pretty much had the run away this game. I just happened to get a very large track of land with my two neighbors a good distance from me. Starting with Pyramids, I just started a solid expansion campaign that filled up the middle continent. That plus Roman Forum to get my CS dominance started, and it was off to the races. I haven't played Greece in a while, but I had forgotten just how solid the Hellenic league attack bonus is, as its just all game if you do it right.

Only a few notes:

1) Another DV where I was close to the win on my own, and then a purchase from my last minute vassal Polynesia to shore it up. Again confirmation that no vote removal is necessary, if anything I am having a pretty easy time securing DVs right now.

2) Mongolia actually stayed peaceful with me for a long time in this game, and we have a DP against Arabia for a time. But once he broke the seal it was basically war after war after war all game. This was a game where the world just jumped on me by Industrial, and everyone warred with me over and over again, but my borders were solid and they never even cracked me.

3) I do think the B17 needs a look at. Compared to the Guerilla Fighter and Zero...which fundamentally can change the way you war, the B17 is just a "slightly better bomber". I'll make a thread to discuss this.

4) Happiness was very solid most of the game. Don't let the screenshot fool you, that was just a recent jump due to big war weariness.

5) Again Orthodoxy needs a tweak. I feel right now I either go Orthodoxy to become the dominant religion, or I take Syncretism to roll over and get big bonuses from letting the dominant religion roll over me. I also founded on Turn 110, which in previous patches was a no go on Immortal.

6) So this game I went rationalism and got a good amount of GSes. I am getting about 4ish turns of science a bulb, compared to 6-7 I was getting before. I definitely notice the difference, but it feels about right.

7) The AI is still ignoring their air defenses to their peril. Its gotten so bad that I feel like right now, once I get to flight and I have a decent amount of oil....its basically game over for the AI. I know people are concerned about the volunteer vassalage, but I can always ignore them. However, this to me is the biggest issue right now....its feels like the AI's strategic AI is down two difficulty levels once I get to flight.

 

[randomnub]

That's a funny little marble island next to Athens.

 

[azum4roll]

Standard Immortal Greece on Communitas_79 (no ruins). DV on Turn 385.

Spoiler :

View attachment 591187

I pretty much had the run away this game. I just happened to get a very large track of land with my two neighbors a good distance from me. Starting with Pyramids, I just started a solid expansion campaign that filled up the middle continent. That plus Roman Forum to get my CS dominance started, and it was off to the races. I haven't played Greece in a while, but I had forgotten just how solid the Hellenic league attack bonus is, as its just all game if you do it right.

Only a few notes:

1) Another DV where I was close to the win on my own, and then a purchase from my last minute vassal Polynesia to shore it up. Again confirmation that no vote removal is necessary, if anything I am having a pretty easy time securing DVs right now.

2) Mongolia actually stayed peaceful with me for a long time in this game, and we have a DP against Arabia for a time. But once he broke the seal it was basically war after war after war all game. This was a game where the world just jumped on me by Industrial, and everyone warred with me over and over again, but my borders were solid and they never even cracked me.

3) I do think the B17 needs a look at. Compared to the Guerilla Fighter and Zero...which fundamentally can change the way you war, the B17 is just a "slightly better bomber". I'll make a thread to discuss this.

4) Happiness was very solid most of the game. Don't let the screenshot fool you, that was just a recent jump due to big war weariness.

5) Again Orthodoxy needs a tweak. I feel right now I either go Orthodoxy to become the dominant religion, or I take Syncretism to roll over and get big bonuses from letting the dominant religion roll over me. I also founded on Turn 110, which in previous patches was a no go on Immortal.

6) So this game I went rationalism and got a good amount of GSes. I am getting about 4ish turns of science a bulb, compared to 6-7 I was getting before. I definitely notice the difference, but it feels about right.

7) The AI is still ignoring their air defenses to their peril. Its gotten so bad that I feel like right now, once I get to flight and I have a decent amount of oil....its basically game over for the AI. I know people are concerned about the volunteer vassalage, but I can always ignore them. However, this to me is the biggest issue right now....its feels like the AI's strategic AI is down two difficulty levels once I get to flight.

Wow you didn't even build a Lighthouse in Athens.