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New Beta Version - November 8th

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Nov 9, 2019.

  1. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    For what it's worth, my game went almost 150 turns before the first war was declared. You can tone aggro down a bit, but Supreme Leader doesn't want to see things get too cute out there... :mischief:
     
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  2. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Balance Tweaks
    Horses are now called ponies.

     
  3. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Awwww....you sure know how to make a guy feeeeeeeel special :)
     
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  4. Recursive

    Recursive Covets Lands That You Currently Own Moderator

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    It should be fine. :)
     
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  5. Ziad

    Ziad Emperor

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    The AI has gotten so good that some small 'flaws' are getting a little more obvious.

    A few times I had totally messed up on a unit placement almost certain that the AI would finish that unit off with it sitting at 10% health only for that one swordsman to fortify at near max health.... funny part is that the AI was authority so they would have probably healed as much for just killing the unit.

    I don't know what parameters are involved, but even when the AI is not in danger of losing that unit, they still choose not to kill a nearby enemy.

    I mean the AI is great at focus firing but sometimes I feel they don't finish the job when they should even if it's safe.

    Just wanted to report this :D ... otherwise this game is THE best war game I've had in a long time thanks to all these AI diplo changes.
     
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  6. saamohod

    saamohod King

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    The swordsman could have ended up in a dangerous position after killing and moving. Therefore he may have decided not to attack.

    But a screenshot would better illustrate your case.
     
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  7. Recursive

    Recursive Covets Lands That You Currently Own Moderator

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    Glad you're enjoying it - more changes should be coming in the next version, including a big weight against backstabbing, more dynamic warmongering penalties, and better bloc formation.

    Issues relating to the tactical AI should be posted on Github.
     
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  8. Bromar1

    Bromar1 King

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    Huge Mongol nerf... But possibly a Poland buff?
     
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  9. Recursive

    Recursive Covets Lands That You Currently Own Moderator

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    Their UB grants Horses, so they won't be much use in fielding units from the Ponyman line. And don't forget the nerf to Attila's Horse Archers!

    G, you're messing up the game balance, we need to talk about this! :)
     
  10. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  11. Recursive

    Recursive Covets Lands That You Currently Own Moderator

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    @ridjack AI will have a very large weight reduction (10x WAR/HOSTILE bias) towards backstabbing friends in the next version, so that'll help quench some of the bloodthirst :)

    When I rework the backstabbing penalties I'll take another look at this; but for now you should be able to have confidence in DoFs again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  12. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Can't say if this is the same thing, but I remember an old discussion about the convenience of finishing off units. Sometimes it is just better to let a severely injured unit go away, especially when the map is crowded with units. That injured unit has to move back, occupies some tiles in doing so while not being a real threat. Unless that's a logistics archer or a skirmisher that can still hurt and flee, or there are very few units in the battlefield, it may be better to let the unit be.
     
  13. Ziad

    Ziad Emperor

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    Could be that the AI knew something I didnt too.

    It's evolving :scan:
     
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  14. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    I think the french AI in this case is smarter than the french in WW1. They are sitting it out, like they have done in WW2, but that was the worst they could have done.
    I see no way how the french AI is able to overcome a 51 defence city with only spearman and catapults. The war declaration may be only there to distract the huns while others (you) are beating the **** out of them.
    Maybe they were able to catch one or two trade units, which would make it worth to declare war and simply wait till the huns are ready to peace out.
     
  15. Coffee Monopoly

    Coffee Monopoly Warlord

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    I don't think aggression needs to be dialed down. At least it's too early to tell, sample size is still very small.

    New game, this time as Germany. Epic, Immortal, 8 players.
    I'm not the biggest fan of tall play or Tradition, but Germany does kinda demand a certain playstyle. CS diplomacy doesn't scale, and neither does Bismarck's UA. Tradition and Statecraft are a must.
    Got off to a ludicrously good start in a big forest with tons of pigs and deer, grabbed that Goddess of the Hunt pantheon and in no time my capital grew ******* huge. Got even better when I discovered the Great Barrier Reef nearby, and more importantly a ton of city states. I share a continent with China, Indonesia and the Netherlands, and, not expecting nor desiring any war, the early game goes quick. I grabbed 3 wonders in my capital (Stonehenge, Halicarnassus and Oracle) and settled only 3 more cities. Already with the placement of our respective 2nd cities, China and I marked our border and started a long tradition of friction. The AI in this version REALLY hates border disputes.

    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-11-19_4-27-13.png


    I founded the 4th religion, didn't get my desired founder belief (Divine Inheritance) and had to settle for Transcendence, which I don't mind whatsoever. Mastery as my first follower, later Diligence, Universalism and Global Commandments. Didn't take any buildings because I got Mandir, Mosque and Church in my capital from wonders. Both Mastery and Diligence scale really well with giant cities. Wu Zetian and William also founded a religion, so after naturally converting all the CS in my vicinity I also have to put some effort into converting Indonesia to max my Transcendence yields. Hence the Universalism enhancer pick.

    So, at the start it looks like William, Ganja whatever and me are forming a bloc against China, but eventually Indonesia flipped to China's side shortly after fighting a war against them. Again, I like how dynamic it can be. Since then, It's been 2 pairs of friends on this continent, and while I haven't fought a single war, William has had 1 or 2 against both China and Indonesia.
    Possible minor AI bug: Early in the game, Indonesia asked me to declare a joint war against China, and I said 10 turns. About 10 turns later (don't know exactly because I didn't remember which turn he asked), he declares war on China himself without even calling me in.

    Interestingly, both China and the Netherlands had one of their cities rebel and go independent. Even better for me. Being Germany, I obviously focus a lot on city state quests and have good luck with them. Also a funny moment when I read that "Lhasa wants The Juice". Who doesn't?

    Time flies, I find the other continent with Augustus, Pacal, Suleiman and Shaka (the latter 2 are extremely weak), and finish Printing Press. When I see how many delegates I already have, I can't resist the temptation of going for World Religion in the first congress.

    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-11-19_20-3-57.png


    Now, I don't want the success of my proposal to depend entirely on how the AIs distribute their delegates among the 3 proposals. So, a plan unfolds in my mind. Do I have Astronomy researched? Yes. Who are the religion founders on the other continent? Pacal and Augustus. Who's closest to me? Suleiman. At this moment I thank Jehovah for granting me the foresight to pick Universalism, buy a stack of 8 missionaries with my saved up faith, and send em across the ocean to juice up the Ottomans.

    BAM!
    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-11-19_23-50-16.png


    I am actually shocked at how far ahead I am at this stage of the game, especially considering my civ. I thought my start with 2 ancient and 3 classical wonders was good, before I built 5 Renaissance wonders (could do even more if I really wanted to). I also not only have the single biggest, but the 2 biggest cities in the world, and I have near permanent golden ages. Then again, I have virtually no army and China could roll me any time they wanted. Guess she's just extremely pacifistic, never declared war despite being hostile the entire game.


    On another note, I can't help but feel that something is fundamentally wrong with the tactical AI in last couple versions. It's been ages since I've seen an AI conquer a city or even have a war score of more than 3. Anyone else?
    In this game for example, on the other continent, Augustus' army (the entire game, I believe) has been more than big enough to steamroll Suleiman completely, or at the very least conquer some of his cities. He's been at war with him at least once, but never achieved anything. I didn't pay much attention to them tbh, but I've seen the same thing in all my recent games.
     
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  16. ASCII Guy

    ASCII Guy Chieftain

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  17. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  18. cerk

    cerk Chieftain

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  19. Recursive

    Recursive Covets Lands That You Currently Own Moderator

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    There seems to be an issue with the military AI (not my domain) which makes them very hesitant to conquer cities, the AI's armies tend to just sit inside their borders not doing much. It's being addressed at the moment.

    If you notice the issue and have logging enabled, you can help by making a post including the logs on this issue thread: https://github.com/LoneGazebo/Community-Patch-DLL/issues/5856

    Re: Diplo AI, if the adjustments make it too passive again, it can be increased - it only lowers aggression slightly however, and raises it in some circumstances. Mainly I was concerned about the AI backstabbing friends too often. The sample size may be small but I'm making adjustments based on specific details in the posts I see. :)

    For instance, China in your game seems too passive, and I suspect they have too much HOSTILE bias and not enough WAR bias; however, it's also possible the AI has the WAR approach and is pretending to be HOSTILE; but just isn't able to set up its military operation to DoW because of the aforementioned bug. Withholding judgement on that, but I do have an idea on how war aggression could be increased in that circumstance.

    Oh, I wasn't expecting a new build till the next version. :)

    If you use this newest DLL, I'd be interested to know your thoughts. Make sure to clearly indicate that you're using it.

    I assume it's for your custom civ; I'd ask G about it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  20. Rikai

    Rikai Chieftain

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    Hi. My game crashed today when i clicked Shaka's portrait at what felt like turn 20. (I made myself an account just to post this. Was a silent reader so far)
    Is there any crash dump file that I can post?

    I downloaded the latest beta. Deleted my year-old folder which it replaces. Then i overwrote the dll in cp1 with the one provided in the OP.
    Accessed VP via "Mod" Menu. Singleplayer. Game was in window mode, I played Pacal, duel, standard speed, earth, against Shaka.
    Shaka had some diplo interaction before, so loading the screen is not the cause. When i wanted to declare war, i clicked his portrait in the upper right corner.
    Game crashed to desktop then without error message.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019

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