New Beta Version - November 8th

[Elberith Logos]

The lategame was truly boring, I was miles ahead in all areas except military and decided to just go for CV instead of diplomatic victory because I'd get there much faster. As I crept closer and closer to the arbitrary victory requirements (I've been influential with all civs and controlled more than half the WC delegates for a long time), everyone started denouncing me, but it took a long time before anyone declared war. They kept declaring war on each other, and didn't try to stop me until it was too late. In the end, they only annoyed me by killing my city states. I guess it would've been more of a problem if I was limited to diplomatic victory as my only option.

Augustus (by far the strongest AI in my game) seemed to have no problem steamrolling all my city states, yet he never managed to conquer any cities from other AIs the entire game, despite warring all the time. I hope we can get a fix released for that soon. I saw the github thread, thanks for reporting it!


View attachment 539404

Are you using a mod that randomizes city order... and if so, where can I find it?

 

[azum4roll]

Duplicate copies of luxuries that they don't need means ones they have already imported right? Since the first imported copy (even if they already have connected the luxury in their own kingdom) still gives yields.

 

[Recursive]

Duplicate copies of luxuries that they don't need means ones they have already imported right? Since the first imported copy (even if they already have connected the luxury in their own kingdom) still gives yields.

They value it to gain yields and monopoly bonuses and then value it at 0 after that, but I thought it should be worth the tiniest amount of value to get a spare copy.

So now you can gain a grand total of 1 recent trade value (enough to delay a decrease in the opinion bonus for a whole turn!) by giving them unneeded copies of your luxuries for free.

Excited awkward clap

 

[amateurgamer88]

@Recursive I haven't keeping track with every post here but what sort of adjustment are you making with AI aggression for the next patch? Feels odd when the only wars in my current game after implementing the update on the 19th were between me and AIs and never between AIs. Thanks!

 

[Recursive]

@Recursive I haven't keeping track with every post here but what sort of adjustment are you making with AI aggression for the next patch? Feels odd when the only wars in my current game after implementing the update on the 19th were between me and AIs and never between AIs. Thanks!

There's a bug with city conquest and military deployments that ilteroi is working on, it's making the AI very timid and attack operations are being aborted.

My changes for next version make the AI more willing to make opportunity attacks when conditions are favorable, so you should see more war if your defense, military or economy aren't doing great, and that applies both to humans and AI players equally. There's also some adjustments to lategame diplomacy.

Others have been reporting a lot of wars between AIs (although not much city conquest), so your game may have been an outlier.

 

[TheUnholyPotato]

Standard statement of hope for a fix for the weekend!

But I know that such things are easier said than done. I just came back to VP and I’m hoping for an ai that I should fear.

 

[Recursive]

Standard statement of hope for a fix for the weekend!

But I know that such things are easier said than done. I just came back to VP and I’m hoping for an ai that I should fear.

ilteroi's working on it, so hopefully that'll be the case.

Few more upcoming diplo changes for next version:

AI trained to make opportunity attacks against City-States

AI more likely to want to conquer City-States if they're easy targets, they want to attack a nearby major civ and/or they're going for a Domination Victory

Slightly increased diplo bonus for denouncing an enemy, slightly increased diplo penalty for denouncing a friend (now matches DoF with friend/enemy weight)

Increased diplo penalties for stealing territory: opinion penalty is now doubled for stealing territory from a warmonger,
and an approach penalty is also added for all players (+WAR, +HOSTILE). Multiple thefts = greater penalties.

EDIT: Penalty for stealing territory will be removed if you go to war with a player, regardless
of who declared war. Also, stealing territory while at war will not result in a diplo penalty.

 

[bigcat88]

Dont think that diplo penalties must be increased.
AI still my land, i still land from him. Now we both have negative modifiers and also other world hate us for that...

 

[Recursive]

Dont think that diplo penalties must be increased.
AI still my land, i still land from him. Now we both have negative modifiers and also other world hate us for that...

The penalty is cleared if you vassalize them, but if you grab their land before/after capitulation, they're gonna be mad.

 

[usadefcon1]

The penalty is cleared if you vassalize them, but if you grab their land before/after capitulation, they're gonna be mad.

I think what bigcat is trying to say is that there shouldn't be worldwide penalties for doing it. I tend to agree, or at least make it so friendly AIs don't care.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Regarding the diplomatic penalty for stealing land, does it apply to civs you’re at war with? I feel like planting citadels should be a legitimate wartime tactic, and a civ shouldn’t hold a grudge for that after the war is ended.

 

[Recursive]

I think what bigcat is trying to say is that there shouldn't be worldwide penalties for doing it. I tend to agree, or at least make it so friendly AIs don't care.

Regarding the diplomatic penalty for stealing land, does it apply to civs you’re at war with? I feel like planting citadels should be a legitimate wartime tactic, and a civ shouldn’t hold a grudge for that after the war is ended.

There aren't global penalties, as far as I know?

I'll change it so it's cleared if you go to war, and doesn't apply if you steal territory during a war; the intention was to increase war likelihood if you steal territory in peacetime. If you can capture a city without a permanent penalty, you should be able to do the same with land. Besides, permanent penalties are distasteful.

EDIT: Penalty for stealing territory removed for players who are at war with each other, and going to war with a player now removes the penalty (doesn't matter who declared).

 

[4CV]

Few more upcoming diplo changes for next version:

AI trained to make opportunity attacks against City-States...

Atm it seems, some CS allies quite like the opportunity to chase major Civ's troops around...

Me (Rome), at war with Spain:

Spoiler Panama attacks... :

Spain had just capitulated and our ships were already withdrawn

Some turns later, Rome at war with the Mongols

Spoiler Panama attacks ... :

Of course I had to send them some troops, because the Mongol army was quite strong, but they definitely knew what to do with them

 

[Recursive]

Atm it seems, some CS allies quite like the opportunity to chase major Civ's troops around...

Me (Rome), at war with Spain:

Spoiler Panama attacks... :

Spain had just capitulated and our ships were already withdrawn

View attachment 539555

Some turns later, Rome at war with the Mongols

Spoiler Panama attacks ... :

View attachment 539556
Of course I had to send them some troops, because the Mongol army was quite strong, but they definitely knew what to do with them

City-States now use the normal tactical AI, I think. Previously they were using a special version.

 

[4CV]

City-States now use the normal tactical AI, I think. Previously they were using a special version.

That's good! Only thing is, that you cannot send reinforcements quick enough if your allies are far away. A single unit every three turns might not do, now they really fight.

 

[Recursive]

That's good! Only thing is, that you cannot send reinforcements quick enough if your allies are far away. A single unit every three turns might not do, now they really fight.

You'd have to ask G about that.

 

[civplayer33]

A single unit every three turns might not do, now they really fight.

You can donate units more often if you send them there physically, but that may be difficult if the CS is far away and the enemy or closed border civs are in the way...the units donated that way actually keep all their promotions, even things like Himeji Castle, I believe, which is nice (usually they lose all promos when donating through the CS menu).

I'd say that a CS should probably be more defensive than major civs, though, given how they typically only have one city and are thus easy to wipe out once their relatively small army is lost on a risky offensive.

 

[4CV]

You can donate units more often if you send them there physically, but that may be difficult if the CS is far away and the enemy or closed border civs are in the way...the units donated that way actually keep all their promotions, even things like Himeji Castle, I believe, which is nice (usually they lose all promos when donating through the CS menu).

I'd say that a CS should probably be more defensive than major civs, though, given how they typically only have one city and are thus easy to wipe out once their relatively small army is lost on a risky offensive.

Yes, for their owns sake they should behave more like my absolutely useless vassals, but I like them much more this way. Now they are even smart enough to replace that village by a fort.
If only my frigates could still fire 2 tiles inland from that lake... At least I can send a melee ship into town.

Spoiler :

 

[TheUnholyPotato]

What version are you playing on? It doesn’t look like Panama City is suffering from the silly tactical/builder AI.
@4CV

fixed user tagging! Sorry civplayer

 

[civplayer33]

What version are you playing on? It doesn’t look like Panama City is suffering from the silly tactical/builder AI.

I was making a general comment, not one specific to Panama in that screenshot.