New Beta Version - November 8th

[ASCII Guy]

What was annoying in my last playthrough was how angry Washington was that I wasn't following his religion when I was his master. I mean, I didn't convert your cities. What's the big deal?

 

[Bromar1]

The concept for the existing system (as far as I can tell) is that once you vassalize the AI, they become a semi-autonomous puppet state and clear all past negatives. They do not seriously compete in the game anymore - usually they've lost their capital and stand no chance of success.

They can rebel or hate you if you mistreat them or if they do become more powerful than you, but generally speaking, the intention is that they become a state which depends on you for protection and that you can push around, in exchange for you not outright destroying them.

Meanwhile the intent of warmongering penalties is to punish players who are too aggressive and successful in war, so the AI resists their victory, recognizes them as a threat and doesn't just roll over and die.

These two game mechanics are somewhat at odds, IMO.

To me, it makes no sense that you get huge negative penalties with your vassals where they fear you sinking the world into a new Dark Age and where they become constantly hostile towards you because of it, when you spared them, and they're supposed to be your protectorate who needs protection and support from you, if only to bide their time and rebel later. Getting furious about foreign wars seems counterproductive.

If you have a lot of vassals, you're usually going for a Domination Victory. While it makes sense for your enemies to resist you fiercely, if they've outright given up they have more to gain from friendliness than permanent hostility.

Maybe the penalty could be suspended while you remain their vassal and reinstated if they rebel?

I can understand them not wanting to be dragged into a war - hence eliminating the common foe opinion bonus - but I feel like the current penalties are excessive and unfun.

It's strategically more intelligent for them to at least attempt to be friendly so you don't tax and bully them as much - and if you mistreat them, hostility is justified.

Edit: For the next version, I'll dramatically increase the effect of vassal treatment on their approach, so masters are more incentivized to treat them well.

Have you thought about more interactions with other civs' vassals?
It would be really cool if you could convince a vassal to join you in war against their master

 

[Recursive]

Have you thought about more interactions with other civs' vassals?
It would be really cool if you could convince a vassal to join you in war against their master

While it's a cool idea, it would require a significant rework of the vassalage system.

I did tweak it last version so that vassals would no longer have victory competition penalties with other players who are in the lead, so interaction with them should be more feasible now.

 

[Coffee Monopoly]

Quick question: How do you change the scroll hotkeys to wasd with the EUI? Without it I just edit worldview.lua, but for some reason it doesn't work when I enable EUI. I can't find anything that replaces those controls either.
This is the only thing keeping me from using the EUI atm.

 

[Zanteogo]

IMHO vassals should always appear to be friendly to their master, until they are released or rebel. The AI is able to fake niceness after all.

Also, I like the idea of a vassal seeking help in rebelling against their master, as vassals rebelling in practice is such a rare occurrence due to the fact their master will almost always be way stronger.

 

[ASCII Guy]

I was planning to compile a DLL tonight with the AI changes. Turns out the amount of hoops you have to jump through is insane. I'm with Recursive. The IDE has not been my friend. I'm familiar with coding in C++ but I'm staying away from DLL compilation...

 

[JamesNinelives]

View attachment 539021
How is this possible?

Did you trade any iron to other civs?

 

[pineappledan]

@ASCII Guy, could I interest you in using your C++ skills to work on some additions to the DLL, in order to further integrate some custom civs?

 

[Coffee Monopoly]

Did you trade any iron to other civs?

Nope, couldn't because I never had any.

 

[Coffee Monopoly]

Quick question: How do you change the scroll hotkeys to wasd with the EUI? Without it I just edit worldview.lua, but for some reason it doesn't work when I enable EUI. I can't find anything that replaces those controls either.
This is the only thing keeping me from using the EUI atm.

I got it to work by dropping a WorldView.lua into the \(6a) Community Balance Overhaul - Compatibility Files (EUI)\LUA\ folder and adding the reference to it in the modinfo. Dunno if it breaks anything else, looks good so far.

 

[Bromar1]

While it's a cool idea, it would require a significant rework of the vassalage system.

I did tweak it last version so that vassals would no longer have victory competition penalties with other players who are in the lead, so interaction with them should be more feasible now.

If a vassal is eligible for rebellion, would it be possible to allow war brokerage against their master like a normal war brokerage?

 

[Recursive]

If a vassal is eligible for rebellion, would it be possible to allow war brokerage against their master like a normal war brokerage?

It's possible to do codewise, but it would negate the master's option to grant them independence willingly if it were done through a third party trade deal.

 

[Bromar1]

It's possible to do codewise, but it would negate the master's option to grant them independence willingly if it were done through a third party trade deal.

I think it would be worth it to allow war brokerage like that only if the other civ declares war at the same time

 

[Recursive]

I think it would be worth it to allow war brokerage like that only if the other civ declares war at the same time

Perhaps, but at that point it feels kind of like treading on putmalk's work. That, and I don't know if the community would want such a feature, plus I'm not personally sure how to code it (but I can imagine it leading to much hassle).

Your idea has merit, but I see its addition as unlikely. Possibly an idea for a modmod.

 

[Gazebo]

I was planning to compile a DLL tonight with the AI changes. Turns out the amount of hoops you have to jump through is insane. I'm with Recursive. The IDE has not been my friend. I'm familiar with coding in C++ but I'm staying away from DLL compilation...

It's not that bad.

G

 

[ASCII Guy]

@pineappledan I'm still learning the code base, but I'll see what I can do.

 

[ASCII Guy]

Alright, I take back everything I said. With the recent merges I have successfully compiled a DLL with the AI changes. Have at it!

Updated: 11/23/19

NOT SAVEGAME COMPATIBLE

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wQ1DOxRNjzlKvs7rV9O37rcniUrrTsZp

INSTRUCTIONS:

1. Delete the "cache" folder.
2. Put DLL in "(1) Community Patch"
3. Extract "Core_Files.zip" to "(1) Community Patch". Override any existing files.

OPTIONAL:

- Put WonderChanges.sql in "(2) Community Balance Overhaul\Balance Changes\Wonders" to fix Terracotta Army bug.
- Put MountedUnits.sql in "(2) Community Balance Overhaul\Balance Changes\Units" for 5 movement Light Tanks.

 

[Coffee Monopoly]

Thank you! Is it savegame compatible?

 

[ASCII Guy]

@Coffee Monopoly I'm afraid not. Sorry.

 

[Kim Dong Un]

Alright, I take back everything I said. With the recent merges I have successfully compiled a DLL with the AI changes. Have at it!

NOT SAVEGAME COMPATIBLE

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wQ1DOxRNjzlKvs7rV9O37rcniUrrTsZp

INSTRUCTIONS:

1. Put DLL in "(1) Community Patch"
2. Put CoreChanges.sql in "(1) Community Patch\Core Files\Core Changes"
3. Put CoreText_en_US.xml in "(1) Community Patch\Core Files\Text"

OPTIONAL:

- Put WonderChanges.sql in "(2) Community Balance Overhaul\Balance Changes\Wonders" to fix Terracotta Army bug.
- Put MountedUnits.sql in "(2) Community Balance Overhaul\Balance Changes\Units" for 5 movement Light Tanks.

Glorious Guy with a total of 16 messages through a two-week old account, provides mid-day update on a beta that's barely a week old (for a game/mod project that's pushing a decade old)...

Everyone, we've ascended.