New Beta Version - October 10th (10/10)

[TwoPodRay]

When you capture a city it's always counted as annexed before you pick the puppet option. Since the tech/policy cost only factors in your maximum number of non-puppeted cities, your first puppet will add to the costs.

I think it applies to more than just your first puppet, but also for the first puppet you have after an annex.

If you continue puppeting only after the first, your tech/policy costs won’t keep increasing, but they’ll remain “off” by one, the first puppet. The first city you later annex shouldn’t increase your costs, but the next puppet or annexation after that should.

 

[YukiN]

Ah okay. I get it now. Does that mean the next city founded does not increase policy cost after puppetting or razing?

 

[CppMaster]

How can you found a city after puppeting? Do you mean annex? Then yes.

 

[neo_arcadia]

He meant that he increase his number of owned cities by founding new city using settler/pioneer/colonist instead of capturing and then annexing cities.

 

[CppMaster]

It's the same for policy/tech cost increase.

 

[chicorbeef]

When you capture a city it's always counted as annexed before you pick the puppet option. Since the tech/policy cost only factors in your maximum number of non-puppeted cities, your first puppet will add to the costs.

It might not decrease but when you pick up your next city your costs will stay the same if you puppet the first one.

 

[Galbias]

This is why you need redundancy. One single road connecting all your cities in a row is something very cheap, and probably it's the first layout you need, but if the first tile connecting to capital is broken you are doomed.

What you need to do is:
- Ensure your capital connection to the sea. Each coastal city is connected via lighthouses as long as it is not blockaded by an enemy fleet. You have to blockade all coastal cities to interrupt this connection.
- Design a loop road net. This means connecting your capital to two different cities using different roads, and those other cities being connected by a different road, closing the loop. This way you can place more villages boosted by roads.
- Protect your weak spots. While it's difficult to prevent a parachute attack, a tile cannot be pillaged if a unit of yours is parked there.

I'm less worried about myself and more about the AI and how this feels like a bit of an exploit against them; Siam in this instance only had one Railroad going from his capital to the sea and I feel like I've seen others with similarly non-redundant city connections. If it's something that a human player is supposed to be doing, it's something that an AI player should probably be doing. It certainly doesn't feel like they try to exploit it, I've only had my entire city connection network broken once in VP that I can remember (and only by some random CS units, not even AI paratroopers who could do it easily in a lot of cases).

Regardless though, I think Unhappiness from Isolation being a slow buildup makes more sense from a flavor perspective as well. Citizens wouldn't immediately start rioting because their city is blockaded but after a few weeks or months tensions will start building.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

I've been playing for a while now with this version, and I'm "concerned" that a weird pattern seems to have emerged - I haven't been seeing the AI take Tradition in my Deity games. The common aggressive civs (Mongols, Aztecs, Swedes,...) have been taking Authority, whereas all the others have been taking Progress (including Ethiopia, Korea, Netherlands, Egypt,...). Just wanted to throw this out so others can say whether they noticed anything similar in their games.

Also, I've re-rolled the start several times in one of my games, and India took Goddess of protection about 8 times out of 10. Not saying it's necessarily a bad choice if you're expecting to fight a lot, but it's hardly the best choice for India or any civ on turn 0.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Oh, and I agree with others that it'd be great if it were possible to make unhappiness from isolation less binary, especially in the later stages of the game once paratroopers come online. Perhaps a code that when you're in a war, unhappiness from isolation is halved or something like that?

 

[chicorbeef]

I've been playing for a while now with this version, and I'm "concerned" that a weird pattern seems to have emerged - I haven't been seeing the AI take Tradition in my Deity games. The common aggressive civs (Mongols, Aztecs, Swedes,...) have been taking Authority, whereas all the others have been taking Progress (including Ethiopia, Korea, Netherlands, Egypt,...). Just wanted to throw this out so others can say whether they noticed anything similar in their games.

Also, I've re-rolled the start several times in one of my games, and India took Goddess of protection about 8 times out of 10. Not saying it's necessarily a bad choice if you're expecting to fight a lot, but it's hardly the best choice for India or any civ on turn 0.

8 times out of ten? How much do you play dude?

And on my wonderful sample space of 1 game I didn't see anyone pick Tradition either but that just one game.

 

[pineappledan]

I've been playing for a while now with this version, and I'm "concerned" that a weird pattern seems to have emerged - I haven't been seeing the AI take Tradition in my Deity games. The common aggressive civs (Mongols, Aztecs, Swedes,...) have been taking Authority, whereas all the others have been taking Progress (including Ethiopia, Korea, Netherlands, Egypt,...). Just wanted to throw this out so others can say whether they noticed anything similar in their games.

Also, I've re-rolled the start several times in one of my games, and India took Goddess of protection about 8 times out of 10. Not saying it's necessarily a bad choice if you're expecting to fight a lot, but it's hardly the best choice for India or any civ on turn 0.

Sample size of 2 games. Standard size map with 8 civs. 0 Tradition picks

That being said, one of the games only had 1 decent tradition civ (Rome, Persia, Portugal, Russia, China, Spain, Korea)

 

[YukiN]

Only 1 in 16 picked tradition in my game, but I chalked it up to playing on a huge map. That said, the natural territory size for each civ was only about 5 or 6 cities since I set sea-level to high.

As for Goddess of Potection, Minh Le's latest photojournal makes a strong case for it.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

8 times out of ten? How much do you play dude?

I rerolled a few times (in order to get a desert start to be able to build Petra), noticed India picked it every time, so I decided to see how many times it'd pick it. I don't play that much, not since joining civ anonymous

 

[Omen of Peace]

0 Tradition (apart from me) as well in my recent Immortal, Small, Standard, Archipelago* game. Arabia took Authority and Brazil, Progress.
There was little land, so I would have expected more Tradition (I settled only 3 cities, other civ 5 to 8).

But, as a reminder, reports from games below Immortal are hard to take into account since the RNG influences the policies taken.

* Random map got me Archipelago this time

 

[Kim Dong Un]

I've played one game on this version. Gandhi was my neighbor and went progress with goddess of protection also...

 

[chicorbeef]

I've played one game on this version. Gandhi was my neighbor and went progress with goddess of protection also...

Did @Minh Le hack your computer?

 

[Minh Le]

Later Im gonna try Gandhi with Love and Authority

 

[CppMaster]

Perhaps a code that when you're in a war, unhappiness from isolation is halved or something like that?

Nope. You could exploit it by declaring a war with a distant civ.

In my game Arabia took Tradition and the rest took: 2 Authority and 2 Progress, so it's fine. Emperor, small Pangaea.

 

[4CV]

In a recent game as Rome (Tradition, small pangaea plus map, Ancient era start on level 4) the AI were America, India, Indonesia, Ottomans, Songhai. Four of them played Authority, one Progress.
For me, the AI did a good job at building and fighting as well. The feature of Rome keeping all buildings in conquered cities is very interesting. War weariness and happiness system worked as expected. In one word, it was fun. Thank You very much, dev team!

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

@Gazebo , what are your AI test showing, is there a normal distribution of Tradition/Progress/Authority?