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New Beta Version - October 8th (10-8)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Oct 8, 2019.

  1. Guynemer

    Guynemer King

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    I hate to disagree with the Smartest, Most Handsome Leader Who Ever Graced The Earth With His Presense, but I think "Ban Luxury" is more impactful in VP than in vanilla, thanks to the monopoly bonuses.

    I think it could probably be tuned down a bit as far as AI preferences go.
     
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  2. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    You will pay for this in time...

    But in all seriousness, sanctioning is already more consequential and impactful, making the ban lux thing kind of redundant IMO. How many of you ever choose to actually utilize this proposal against an opponent?
     
  3. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    It is much easier to pass ban luxury. Sanctions tend to be unpopular.
     
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  4. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    If an opposing civ is enough of a threat that you're at the point where you're considering using up a proposal to attempt a lux ban, wouldn't it just be more viable at that point to just sanction, because most other civs probably view them as a threat at that point in time also, so others will be more inclined to agree with your sanction proposal?

    I personally just think the optics of the entire thing is dumb. Shaka is conquering everyone, so lets tell him he can't use his Ivory anymore? Makes no sense...

    I'm telling you all, you'd see a greater variety of AI proposals like I do in my games, including them proposing projects more frequently, if you'd remove this silliness.
     
  5. Yaviel

    Yaviel Chieftain

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    I disabled ban luxury because it is all the AI ever picks, feels like cheating and on top of all makes no sense.
     
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  6. andersw

    andersw Emperor

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    I see ban lux very often but there are a lot of lux and you can't propose the same thing again twice.
    It is a tool to bit by bit strangle a warmonger but it's maybe used too much where other options could be better?
    A ban not only cause you to lose the happiness but also the monopoly bonus, the impact in total is not huge but can be a bit rough when you're low happiness.
    It can in some cases as a warmonger be worse than a lategame sanction since you can still trade with vassals when sanctioned and often keep most trade routes internal anyway.
     
  7. danymatrix

    danymatrix Chieftain

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    what is the mod? and what does it do more specifically? Could you upload it here? Thank you
     
  8. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Emperor

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    You can use "Change VP options" (https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/change-vp-options.620079/) and add to it the following line:

    DELETE FROM Resolutions WHERE Type = 'RESOLUTION_BAN_LUXURY_HAPPINESS';
     
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  9. AndreyK

    AndreyK Prince

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    I would like to try this version of Communitas, where do I put this mapscript?
     
  10. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    If you are talking about Communitu_79a, then folder user/Documents/My Games/Sid Meier's Civilization V/maps would do.
     
  11. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I do feel that Boredom seems overtuned, I have been struggling with it the most in most of my games. A good representation of it is here:



    I'm top in the world in culture right now, and my Siam unique is giving me a culture on pretty much every spot. You would need a guild city with 4 culture specialists to outdo this kind of culture. And yet I have an excessive amount of boredom
     

    Attached Files:

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  12. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Here's a better picture:
     
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  13. Earf

    Earf Chieftain

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    Thanks for the help. I read through the happiness articles under the Strategy section, then played a game. I actually didn't have a difficult time getting an 8 city empire going, at 100% happiness. That article helped me make a couple of small changes that resulted in me getting a great start.
     
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  14. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Standard Immortal Fractal playing Siam. Lost to Mayan (Science Victory) on Turn 422.

    This was another attempt at DV, and though I did better this time (I learned my lesson and did Spheres instead of diplomats, which was a much better way to play...albeit more boring). I was actually top for a good portion of the game...and then entire world just hated my guts. Wars, lack of trade, everyone wanted a piece of me. And unfortunately I got sanction before my diplomatic power ramped up. I think my biggest mistake this game was not repealing it sooner once I had the diplomatic juice....its just really hard to keep up with the big guys without TRs.

    Germany took the top spot and we traded wars (and CS) back and forth. And little old Mayan just kept teching away. At one point I did try to make a small navy (I had little iron, coal, and uranium this game...sigh), but Germany just beat it back down before I could ramp it up (which was quite smart of him). I got boxed in for a while.

    Eventually I had enough and conquered Sweden to the west. He had been a tough opponent all game, but once I had planes (and oil was one thing I did have in abundance), I was able to go to work on him and vasseled him. That gave me a surge of much needed resources. Germany was still blocking me to the Mayan...and he stubbornly wouldn't declare on the guy actively building spaceship parts! So I made a last ditch effort, I declared on Germany and nuked the closest city to me (which he kept bombs in himself). Thankfully my nuke took them out, and then I immediately took the city. This gave me the waterway I need to get to the Mayan. I sent 3 carriers filled with planes, a few destroyers, and some tanks, to make a crazy push on his capital.

    I got there 1 turn before he built the last part. Actually did surprisingly well with the assault but it was not to be, and he built the last part.

    A few thoughts with this latest game:

    1) Air Power: Having played a few more games with it, I do like the new 2 aircraft limit. I find that it gives aircraft an interesting niche and balance in the game, aircraft is very powerful early on, especially if your opponent doesn't have it...but now you can only bring so much of it to bear. Therefore you have to balance your oil with more tanks. It also gives Guided Missiles a new niche....because of their range I would keep missiles in my farther away cities, and could still bring them to bear....so it effectively let me bypass my plane limit of a sorts.

    I stick with my earlier feedback that AA guns should do more damage to planes. That said, I am confused about fighters...if they are just sitting in a city and not intercepting do they add their extra damage? I was attacking Sweden, who had just gotten some triplanes up...and suddenly I was taking half my health with a strike...even though there was no interception warning (and the warning screen said no interceptors...and I could see all cities). So I'm not sure what was going on there. Same thing happened in my attack with the Mayan, even though I wasn't being intercepted, I was taking 40-50 damage a strike. I will say that is too much, I don't mind a plane getting wrecked when its intercepted, but just retaliatory damage that is too much for a simple attack.

    2) Agribusiness: Just one more pitch, can we give up this +3 food thing, and have the building gives Food % again...or converted food into gold? Seriously this building is terrible.

    3) Holy Land: I've heard other people concerned that its weak. Just to note in this game, though I didn't get that many landmarks (my land was just terrible with the extra stuff this game), I got 7 votes in total from it. That's nearly twice the Level 3 Freedom tenant, I think its pretty good...and for a guy like Siam the +50% more yields is no joke either.

    4) The new change didn't change my opinion of skirmishers at all. I tried them out a bit, but I kept asking "why does this unit exist?". If I want to tank something, I bring a horseman. If I want to bombard something, I bring a bowman. The skirmisher currently does tank better than it did...but why am I tanking with this unit?

    At first I did think the Light Tank may be okay...until I forgot its an archery unit instead of an armored one...meaning G guns and Machine Guns do their full damage to it...bye bye tank.

    5) Happiness: After several tradition games I'm seeing a common trend in my games. My overall happiness is solid, but what I find is my Capital is carrying my satellite cities. I am seeing a real stutter step approach to growth. I will grow my city a little, and then I have to put it on production focus (and shut off growth) for a long time to build build build. Then I have to check if my city can take the 10 or so unhappiness the 1 unit of growth will give me (not an exaggeration in the slightest), and then if I can, I'll let it grow....and then immediately turn off growth again. All of my satellites in this game were Pop: 27, 20, 19, 18, 16, 14....so in general pretty slow growth throughout the game.

    This was particularly noticeable in this game because most of my satellites were heavy forested (so lots of lumber mill triangles). This gave me just a bit of food, and a lot of hammers...and yet I felt I was constantly behind the happiness curve if I let my cities grow normally. I even had Siam's +1 culture on every forest tile....and yet boredom was rampant throughout my cities.

    So in summary, Global happiness was good, but I had some weird local happiness fights. I think I would rather relax unhappiness a bit but give the capital a bigger penalty, so it actually has some unhappiness here and there.
     
  15. General_Drax

    General_Drax Warlord

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    On point 5) i'm fully agree. Playing on Emperor, epic pace. 70 % of game is managing happiness. Often 1 more population means you pass the 50 % limit and BOOM all is damn hard balance it out. It seems AI is fatr better managing this going easily to 8/9 pop on 5 Tiles cities with like 2 luxury.

    Skirmishers require a lot of finesse aka you need road and plains to deploy them. Ranged is still king at the moment.
     
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  16. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Just finished a game with Japan. King difficulty. Domination victory in early Modern.

    Naval combat is no longer something I am actively avoiding, so that's great. However, I have some niticks with the Dreadnought line:
    • Dauntless is head and shoulders the best promo in the dreadnought tree. It's got terrific synergy with the dreadnought extra HP. I think the heal should be reduced to +5
    • There are 3 leaf promotions in the dreadnought line that give specific bonuses vs cities. Combined with the 33% bonus vs cities on ironclads, that is +233% vs cities if you can manage to take all 3. As Japan, that was a bit easier to do than perhaps with other civs. By the end, I Had an ironclad that was hitting a garrisoned city for 72HP and taking 3 damage. There's just so much redundancy in these promotions; I wonder if something couldn't be done too replace either Blockade or Vanguard with something that isn't an anti-city bonus
    • I can't say I've had as negative a time with the BP line as @Stalker0 has reported. The BP line has some very decent utility. I will add that the synergy between the :c5gold: on kills with Piracy and Prize Rules promotion (Comerce Raiders autocracy tenet) is very fun.
    Agribusiness, as @Stalker0 pointed out, is a pretty bad building. I went Fealty/Imperialism in my last game, so I got the 2:c5food:1:c5production: on farms/plantations/camps and Pastures, a free Cathedral in my capital (Notre Dame), and my second city with 2 sheep/2cattle. I only built an agribusiness in those 2 cities; spending that number of :c5production:hammers and precious horses on 11:c5food:2:c5production:1:c5gold: farms vs 8:c5food:2:c5production:1:c5gold: doesn't cut the mustard in >90% of cases.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
  17. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives Emperor

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    As someone who plays on a huge map, I almost exclusively take the BP line on my melee ships because it allows me access to the upgrades which give more vision and mobility which allow me to pick when and where to fight (as well as trap lone/stray enemy ships).

    I actually had quite an interesting experience recently where I was fighting a much smaller battle in a inland sea, and found myself going full dreadnought instead. Similarly, I picked the city bonus for my ranged naval units whereas normally I always go with the +units bonus.

    I never have naval units with more than 5 promotions though. In fact the only units I have above level 5 tend to be recon units that I've kept alive a long time. It surprises me when people talk about level 10 units. I guess once you get to high levels it becomes easier to keep those units alive? Being Japan also helps of course.

    On that subject, I find that I tend to give my ranged cavalry cover II to make them a live longer. I used to go for the one that lets them ignore zone of control, but with the rough terrain penalty I'm not sending them into enemy territory any more.

    I tend to build agribusinesses after all my horses are upgraded. I got the impression it mainly existed so that horses aren't entirely useless late-game. Although I do feel they could certainly have more value after they are no longer used militarily. None of the other SRs go 'obselete'.

    As for AA guns, I'm not sure what is happening in your games, Stalker - mine seem to do a lot of damage against the AI planes :|.

    I really really like the new skirmishers. Being a tougher and more mobile than composite bowmen but not benefiting from terrain allows me to use each of them situationally.

    I'm not really sure what's going on in yours games vis. a happiness either Stalker. I haven't really had an issue with boredom specifically. Although my policy choices may make that a bit moot (Progress/Artistry). Still, 10 unhappiness from 1 pop increase seems ridiculous.

    Edit: another observation (over several games now) is that the Way of Transcendance bonus doesn't seem to pop upon entering the Industrial era for me regardless of method. I thought it might be due to entering via a 'free tech' but I've tried normal research, free techs, and great scientists boosts to no effect. Have yet to play enough late-games to see if the later eras give the bouns reliably. I've had zero issues with the earlier eras.
     
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  18. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Just to clarify, I do like some of the BP side upgrades. Piracy can be fun, Navigation is wonderful, and Encirclement has its uses. I just think the base upgrade is weak compared to Dreadnought, and the Dreadnought side upgrades are also very good.

    I will say, if your having problems leveling your ships....try Dreadnought more:) A Dreadnought III Dauntless Ship will take significantly more punishment than your BP III X ships will, and so they will last a lot longer and get those higher promotions. Granted, level 10 ships are hard for me, I don't get them every game, but levels 6-7 are pretty common.
     
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  19. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Does the Anti-warmonger penalty affect interception damage? That could explain a large discrepancy in our experiences.

    I would argue that press gangs is the best for your first Dreadnought Ship, at least if your going offense. The ability to instantly restore ~120 hp beats the durability of Dauntless...but its a limited resource, which is why I only put it on one ship. The rest I agree go Dauntless or the various city taking promotions

    Compared to a Targeting III Logistics Bombardment II Frigate...I'd say the melee ship is finally "alright" at hurting a city...assuming its not in range of a lot of range counterattack. On the one hand, I agree with you that city taking is a bit scattered, but G may want to ramp up that power level slowly, which I can understand. Its similar to the Frigate, logistics is very powerful, but its on Targeting, so you don't get to the real city killing power until you add in bombardment as well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
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  20. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives Emperor

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    I think interception is simply a combat that resolves between the CS of the attacker and that of the the defender before the bombing takes place. So I would assume that the anti-warmonger penalty does apply, as with most other combats.

    Also, with regards to whether fighters stationed in cities can intercept, I believe (although I'm not certain) that the white text that turns up when a unit if damaged mentioned whether your unit was intercepted or not. I know I get a line that explicitly tells me 'your AA gun intercepted' when it happens that way.
     
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