pre-release info New Civ Game Guide: Hawai'i

[pokiehl]

This would only emphasize my point. Any number of civs could have a missionary that heals land units. Hawai’i should have stuff with a more maritime bent, or at least a little more zhuzh.

I do like the Hawaii design, but I agree it feels like the emphasis towards water might seem more appropriate if it had been more pronounced across the board.

 

[j51]

It is reflective of Kamehameha's conquest of the other Hawaiian kingdoms and unifying their religion.

But that’s modern era Hawai’i. ;-)

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

Yeah if you can chain them, but I just was hoping for more, like special perks for voyaging. Or maybe their culture bonuses are offset with some kind of inland malus? Or maybe they have a different unique improvement that’s for marine tiles? Certainly the Leiomano could tie in better with marine combat, or only earn culture when it fights on the coast? And why does it have a bonus against cavalry?

I think it's actually interesting: since you want to maximize the amount of growth events occurring, you'll want as many settlements as possible. Settling becomes a bonus in of itself, so you'll want to push the Settlement Cap for the sake of maximizing the amount of growth events that are happening, which fishing boat happiness will help support.

I think a settlement spam gameplan like this brings up a lot of questions unique to the new systems in the game. For instance, the Town/City dynamic! Will you have cities all over the place, or if you came from Khmer (speculated geographical pathway), will you keep them all as towns to keep up your capital focused gameplay? It also seems like you unlock Religion related abilities through a special Civic tree, so you might be able to get a head start in that direction. You'll definitely have a shot to be the first to unlocking a Reliquaries belief, and you'll have the settlements to store them, so perhaps a culture victory? Or maybe all the settlements you're encouraged to build will be the perfect infrastructure for an economic victory? you've got outposts all over the world, happiness bonuses, and a unique infantry, so maybe a domination victory would be a good plan.

Overall, I really like this bonus. It's very elegant. On the surface level, it's a simple, fun bonus: get culture when you click the satisfying button! But in trying to maximize the button presses and make use of the extra culture, several other gameplans open up. It looks like a really fun civ, especially for the Age of Exploration, and I might shoot for it game one.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

But that’s modern era Hawai’i. ;-)

You say that like it matters. *Looks at Khmer*

 

[j51]

I think it's actually interesting: since you want to maximize the amount of growth events occurring, you'll want as many settlements as possible. Settling becomes a bonus in of itself, so you'll want to push the Settlement Cap for the sake of maximizing the amount of growth events that are happening, which fishing boat happiness will help support.

I think a settlement spam gameplan like this brings up a lot of questions unique to the new systems in the game. For instance, the Town/City dynamic! Will you have cities all over the place, or if you came from Khmer (speculated geographical pathway), will you keep them all as towns to keep up your capital focused gameplay? It also seems like you unlock Religion related abilities through a special Civic tree, so you might be able to get a head start in that direction. You'll definitely have a shot to be the first to unlocking a Reliquaries belief, and you'll have the settlements to store them, so perhaps a culture victory? Or maybe all the settlements you're encouraged to build will be the perfect infrastructure for an economic victory? you've got outposts all over the world, happiness bonuses, and a unique infantry, so maybe a domination victory would be a good plan.

Overall, I really like this bonus. It's very elegant. On the surface level, it's a simple, fun bonus: get culture when you click the satisfying button! But in trying to maximize the button presses and make use of the extra culture, several other gameplans open up. It looks like a really fun civ, especially for the Age of Exploration, and I might shoot for it game one.

That’s a really great read on it. Thanks! I still think the units and infrastructure have bonuses that feel particularly blah for an oceangoing culture.

 

[B0RDERL1NE]

Reminded me it's not jungle anymore, it's tropical - plains or vegetated - ... They really should change it to "wooded".

Each land Biome in the game has its own vegetation. In the past this has been Woods and Rainforest, but we have a lot more than that now... listing them out individually would be a chore! We needed a single word that could encapsulate all of them.

 

[Acepox]

Each land Biome in the game has its own vegetation. In the past this has been Woods and Rainforest, but we have a lot more than that now... listing them out individually would be a chore! We needed a single word that could encapsulate all of them.

No, I know, I'm just saying the word "wooded" sounds much better than "vegetated".

It's not too much of a stretch either, as it appears all the vegetated tiles are vegetated with trees.

 

[Atlas627]

Dubious. It's not clear whether they can heal while embarked or while in an Army Commander stack. Naval units can heal themselves in coastal water anyway, so they don't need a Missionary to tag along for scouting.

The bigger benefit of the Kahuna is to heal land units during attacks on cities, then converting the city once completed.

Bringing a Missionary would allow you to move a whole stack of units to fan out and explore later. And such abilities could be used while embarked in 6, though I suppose we don't know that's still the case here.

 

[pokiehl]

No, I know, I'm just saying the word "wooded" sounds much better than "vegetated".

It's not too much of a stretch either, as it appears all the vegetated tiles are vegetated with trees.

I think vegetated works well. There’s really not a better single word that encompasses everything.

Wooded does not work IMO, since that wouldn’t include the sagebrush feature, and also wouldn't really be appropriate for the savanna woodland feature. It wouldn’t include the vegetated coastal tile (forgot the name) either.

Wooded also generally gives a specific connotation that doesn’t include rainforest/jungle.

 

[SnowKomodo]

Everyone here is full of praise for the civ but frankly I'm bewildered and disappointed. The other exploration age civs all had large empires (maybe apart from the Shawnee) but Hawai'i is a set of - in world terms - smaller islands. I picture my transition from a antique civ with a large empire to ... Hawai'i. It's as if I transition from being Rome to playing as Malta in the exploration age. Or from playing a large Maurya empire to playing as Sri Lanka in the exploration age. Just the scale of civ doesn't sit right with me. They would have been great as an independent people, though.

I'm on a different boat. I prefer inclusion of cultures based on what makes them unique, not on westernized standards of what constitutes greatness or advanced. Wider, more expansive civs undeniably have a greater impact, but these exploration civs often had large empires because they were colonialist, violent, and disrespected "lesser" peoples because they viewed themselves as better.

I don't claim that islanders (or anyone on Earth) were always peaceful, but I sure as heck don't care to perpetuate the romanticization of the British Empire of Violence or the Dutch East India Slavery and Oppression Company, etcs of the world, if that means continuing to ignore cultures that were never allowed to naturally develop into their own, especially given how much these "great" civilizations have created destabilizing effects that last today.

This is a video game at the end of the day so it will do that, but because it's also a video game, it's choosing to celebrate everyone on Earth. I love that Civ has been doing that more and more with each entry, and with more care and respect every time. Instead of recylcing through the same largest empires only, now that it has expanded to have more civs, it's OK from time to time to include a smaller grouping. Cultures that don't get taught in history deserve to be romanticized in a video game so that people actually learn about them for once. At the end of the day, we can literally choose who we play as anyway.

It seems like just yesterday (After Civ 4, before Civ 5) I was trying to convince (some) people the Majapahit were worth adding, and they would talk down their worth. Now I can't find a single person who would question their inclusion. I hope the same goes for any culture Civ decides to represent, especially because we can all rest easy knowing we will still get our favorites (Japan, USA, etc) every time.

 

[Prester John 2]

I'm on a different boat. I prefer inclusion of cultures based on what makes them unique, not on westernized standards of what constitutes greatness or advanced. Wider, more expansive civs undeniably have a greater impact, but these exploration civs often had large empires because they were colonialist, violent, and disrespected "lesser" peoples because they viewed themselves as better.

I don't claim that islanders (or anyone on Earth) were always peaceful, but I sure as heck don't care to perpetuate the romanticization of the British Empire of Violence or the Dutch East India Slavery and Oppression Company, etcs of the world, if that means continuing to ignore cultures that were never allowed to naturally develop into their own, especially given how much these "great" civilizations have created destabilizing effects that last today.

This is a video game at the end of the day so it will do that, but because it's also a video game, it's choosing to celebrate everyone on Earth. I love that Civ has been doing that more and more with each entry, and with more care and respect every time. Instead of recylcing through the same largest empires only, now that it has expanded to have more civs, it's OK from time to time to include a smaller grouping. Cultures that don't get taught in history deserve to be romanticized in a video game so that people actually learn about them for once. At the end of the day, we can literally choose who we play as anyway.

It seems like just yesterday (After Civ 4, before Civ 5) I was trying to convince (some) people the Majapahit were worth adding, and they would talk down their worth. Now I can't find a single person who would question their inclusion. I hope the same goes for any culture Civ decides to represent, especially because we can all rest easy knowing we will still get our favorites (Japan, USA, etc) every time.

Hi, thanks for your long reply and thought you have put into it. I also love Firaxis' endeavour to include less well known cultures and unusual playstyles in the new iteration. I love the Majapahit civ for instance, an empire (like Srivijaya) that was much more focused on trade than military expansion. I love the Chola empire and that finally the Mughals get a proper place. I would have also loved for more Central Asian representation (we only got the Huns in 5 and the Mongols). Not to mention the many African kingdoms that deserve representation (it's such a huge continent with many different cultures; glad about Aksum, Songhai, would have been interested in Ashanti also).
Nonetheless, it's a 4X game, at whose core is expansion. Even Venice in Civ5 had the capability to expand via city state purchase and conquest. Cultures that didn't expand beyond their immediate surrounding are great as independent peoples/city states but not as civs that expand into an empire. The core of civ, in my view, is about expansion. Why didn't they take the Vatican/Papal states in the exploration age? Or Nowgorod? Or Ireland? Or Tibet? Because these states basically stayed where they are (ok, you can make a case for the Irish emigration but that founded a new state on another soil. It doesn't even have to be by violent means.
Expansion means conquest or colonization. This is not just something European states have done. China did it, Indians did it (for example in Bengal), Majapahit did it. If the devs want to let non-expansionist gameplay be worthwhile why not make independent people/city states playable? Lead one city into the modern age.

 

[Uberfrog]

Hi, thanks for your long reply and thought you have put into it. I also love Firaxis' endeavour to include less well known cultures and unusual playstyles in the new iteration. I love the Majapahit civ for instance, an empire (like Srivijaya) that was much more focused on trade than military expansion. I love the Chola empire and that finally the Mughals get a proper place. I would have also loved for more Central Asian representation (we only got the Huns in 5 and the Mongols). Not to mention the many African kingdoms that deserve representation (it's such a huge continent with many different cultures; glad about Aksum, Songhai, would have been interested in Ashanti also).
Nonetheless, it's a 4X game, at whose core is expansion. Even Venice in Civ5 had the capability to expand via city state purchase and conquest. Cultures that didn't expand beyond their immediate surrounding are great as independent peoples/city states but not as civs that expand into an empire. The core of civ, in my view, is about expansion. Why didn't they take the Vatican/Papal states in the exploration age? Or Nowgorod? Or Ireland? Or Tibet? Because these states basically stayed where they are (ok, you can make a case for the Irish emigration but that founded a new state on another soil. It doesn't even have to be by violent means.
Expansion means conquest or colonization. This is not just something European states have done. China did it, Indians did it (for example in Bengal), Majapahit did it. If the devs want to let non-expansionist gameplay be worthwhile why not make independent people/city states playable? Lead one city into the modern age.

I would suggest that the Hawai’ians, a group of people who (as part of a long period of Polynesian expansion) sailed 2,500 miles from Tahiti to colonise an archipelago in the middle of the Pacific Ocean absolutely fit your definition of expansionist. And they did it firmly within the era represented by the Age of Exploration in the game.

It is an inevitable consequence of the size of the islands and the vast distances between them that the Hawai’ians never formed a vast oceanic empire. But that should hardly discount them from inclusion.

 

[Fummy]

The Hale o Keawe really stretches the definition of world wonder. its literally just a small wooden hut. Part of the reason for this dilution might be the need for every civ to have a unique wonder, even those who historically did not build colossal monuments.

 

[Sahvie]

It looks awesome! Those unique abilities seem super strategic, especially how culture generation works with marine tiles. The Lo'i Kalo improvement is clever game design. I'm definitely going to try this civ when the new game drops.

 

[queenpea]

considering the civ 7 leader track record this is nonzero. i’m begging firaxis to do lili’uokalani tho

Two-persona Lili, please!

 

[dagriggstar]

The Hale o Keawe really stretches the definition of world wonder. its literally just a small wooden hut. Part of the reason for this dilution might be the need for every civ to have a unique wonder, even those who historically did not build colossal monuments.

Having actually visited it in person I'd say, with the understanding that they need like 40-50 world wonders now, that it's cool enough to qualify. I found Puʻukoholā Heiau to be a more wonderous place, but that might just be personal taste. As strictly a structure, ignoring cultural and historical significance, I'd say it's more impressive than say the Mausoleum of Theodoric (seen inside the games civilpedia pretty early on). But a big part of what makes wonders wonderous to me anyway is the human element, the stories, the cultural value. Just looking at things from strictly a structural stand point would be kinda boring imo.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Introducing a new Exploration Age civ, Hawai'i!​

Unique Military Unit:
Leiomano: Unique Infantry Unit. Has increased Combat Strength against Infantry and Cavalry Units.

Hawaiian Uniques:

• Leiomano (Military) - potentially from lei o manō, "shark's lei" - a club embedded with with shark teeth, similar to the obsidian macuahuitl used by warriors in Mesoamerica

Aloha!

Actually Leiomano is a name of Sharktooth bladed weapons made similiarly to Mesoamerican Macuatihl but use sharkteeth instead.
Hawaii is a vocanic achipaleigo (? so hard to spell but I know that it means 'chain of islands with significant landmass to support a country' like Japan). and even volcanic ones, isn't there enough obsidians to make the same Macuatihl but instead Sharkteeth is chsen? what's good is it compared to obsidians? and how well did it fare against iron weapons?

The Leiomano: Weaponizing the Ocean's Most Feared Killer - BRUTE de FORGE

Just in time for Shark Week 2023, check out this deadly, authentic weapon made from shark teeth

brutedeforge.com

And one even found its way to Cahokia ! How come? a trade or loot or was there a species of Missisipian sharks before?

 

[AriochIV]

The remains of sharks and other deep-water fish have been found in many ancient Neolithic and even Mesolithic sites. Although evidence of their transportation methods usually don't survive the millennia, it seems pretty clear that very many ancient cultures ventured into deep water and traded via water routes with other cultures, going back very far into prehistory.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

The remains of sharks and other deep-water fish have been found in many ancient Neolithic and even Mesolithic sites. Although evidence of their transportation methods usually don't survive the millennia, it seems pretty clear that very many ancient cultures ventured into deep water and traded via water routes with other cultures, going back very far into prehistory.

This confirms that Civ game begins should be earlier than 4th Millenium BC.

Is there any tests that switching BOTH macuahuitl and leiomano blades to iron or steel make the same way improves its performance or make it better in any way?

 

[Zaarin]

Is there any tests that switching BOTH macuahuitl and leiomano blades to iron or steel make the same way improves its performance or make it better in any way?

Obsidian cuts better than iron (or steel), but iron is cheaper and lighter--and when the goal is to lacerate your opponent into bleeding to death, the precision cuts of obsidian aren't a significant advantage. (There are investigations into making scalpels out of obsidian, though--an application where precision cuts are highly desirable.)