New First Look: Machiavelli

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

Not what I was expecting today but I like it. That ability sounds fun, it should encourage you to be a little weasel.

 

[BackseatTyrant]

A dubious little creature getting up to mischief; this is no good.

Ugh, the beast is demonic in nature. Very icky, no good.

 

[Willie5000]

No, not really. Leaders can be more than one kind of leaders, I love it. Of , even in previous civs it wasn’t always actual leaders we got. Remember we got Gandhi from the start.

And we only stuck with Gandhi because it’s funny when he uses nuclear weapons.

 

[thecrazyscot]

Crazy synergies with a Greece-Shawnee path! Suzerain every Independent Power for massive gains on the Parthenon and Mawaskawe Skote.

Greece Ability - Demokratia: Increased Influence per turn on the Palace. Tradition - Xenia: Increased Influence towards initiating and progressing the Befriend Independent Action. Tradition - Delian League: Increased Influence towards initiating Endeavors. Tradition - Peloponnesian League: Increased Influence towards initiating Sanctions. Acropolis: Unique Quarter. Increased Gold on the Parthenon Unique Building for each City-State you are Suzerain of. Parthenon: Unique Building. Culture base. Gains Influence if placed on Rough Terrain. Odeon Building: Unique Building. Happiness base. Culture adjacency for Quarters.

Shawnee Telwatiki Tier 1: You can support other leaders' Wars multiple times instead of once. Unlocks 'Helikhilenawewipe' Tradition. Tradition - Helikhilenawewipe: Increased Influence Efficiency to the Befriend Independent action. Mawaskawe Skote: Unique Improvement. Adds Food. Increased Gold for each adjacent Resource. Must be placed on a Vegetated tile not adjacent to another Mawaskawe Skote. Receives increased Culture per City-State you are Suzerain of after researching Wyehi Simekofi Tier 2.

I love how you could use the Leader abilities to double-down on Civilization synergies or fill in a gap for a more balanced playstyle.

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

I just realized this means you can have a declared friendship with him and he can start a war with you. At first I thought you just avoided the grievance from a surprise war.

 

[Guandao]

We had Kupe leading the Maori back in Civ6, and Kupe is the mythical discoverer of New Zealand, not a political leader in any form......

At least Ben Franklin, Confucius and Machiavelli had connections to politics. I don't think we'll get someone as random as Sappho or Howard Florey like in Ara History Untold.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think that possibly the most telling elements that I forgot to mention are the music and the colors. Civ jerseys (kinda) are associated with leaders now, and Machiavelli uses the exact scheme of Greece from previous two games. If there's a Greek leader in game, I'd expect them to use it. Unless we're getting Leonidas or someone Spartan, I guess, but I don't exactly think that's very likely.

The more I think about it, the more likely Alexander could come back as one of the "Crossroads of the World" leaders. He'd definitely fit with either Greece or Persia.
He could also use a more Macedonian color scheme.

It ALSO suggests there's no Italy (which we suspected anyway, but this reveal confirms it) or Exploration Era British leader. If we get another Euro leader for Exploration, I would expect them to be paired with Spain.

It still could be Elizabeth, which it would be funny to pair her with Spain.

 

[Vitruvian Guar]

When your only friends are Machiavelli and Xerxes, it's a sure sign that you are, indeed, the baddie...

Love the concept, and the leader design. But I suspect he is going to be incredibly annoying to play against. Previously AI was spamming us with bad diplomatic proposals. Now it will be doing so as a legit way to get money! Of course it all depends on how good the diplomatic system and AI is. Hope it will be on the level.

 

[thecrazyscot]

His ability to levy military from City-States he is not suzerain of can be super amazing/annoying. Let's say someone spent the effort to suzerain all their adjacent city-states. Machiavelli can bypass that to raise armies anywhere on the globe to harass his enemies. And if he is able to capture a town or city with his mercenary raiders, if he were, say, the Normans, he could quickly fortify it to create a surprise strongpoint in the heart of his enemy's empire.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Crazy synergies with a Greece-Shawnee path! Suzerain every Independent Power for massive gains on the Parthenon and Mawaskawe Skote.

How exactly do you get to Greece - Shawnee as Machiavelli though.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Not what I was expecting today but I like it. That ability sounds fun, it should encourage you to be a little weasel.

'Weasel', as in the great Blackadder quote:

"This plan is so cunning you could put whiskers and a tail on it and call it a Weasel."

 

[gdr_willter]

Setting the historical accuracy aside, the design of his agenda and ability looks well organized.

He wants to control and supress his warfronts, so he tries to improve his relationship with other factions except the ongoing enemies.
He has additional influence so he can make more diplomatic actions with any other friends and rivals. And the diplomatic actions gain him more golds!
He can betray anybody at anytime with minimal penalties. He can just change the diplomatic situations at his will.
And he even can interrupt his enemies' military power, by intercepting the levy-able CS units what was not belongs to him originally. For this, he can use the gold he earned from the diplomatic actions.

 

[thecrazyscot]

How exactly do you get to Greece - Shawnee as Machiavelli though.

No idea! I assume that there is some in-game unlock for all the civs, but I could certainly be wrong about that!

 

[tedhebert]

Part of his unique ability is levying units from city-states that he isn't suzerain of. So, real mercenaries

I wonder if he'll be able to levy troops from a city-state that is suzerained by someone he is at war with ?

EDIT: And if he CAN, can the then ennemy re-levy the troops from his suzerained city-states ? this is going to ping-pong

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

No idea! I assume that there is some in-game unlock for all the civs, but I could certainly be wrong about that!

Such is not confirmed, but I'm hoping for some kind of confirmation on 7 November.

So far we have a potential 'model' for such in the Mongol progression requiring 3 Horse resources. That at least shows one 'universal' progression for one Exploration Age civ.

Of course, some of the progressions might be really, really hard to accomplish, like progressing to Shawnee only if all your cities are on navigable rivers or something else equally specific.

I'm still hoping for some set of 'universal' Progression mechanic, though: it would open up the game so much, even if it required you to jump through hoops to get it.

 

[thecrazyscot]

I'm still hoping for some set of 'universal' Progression mechanic, though: it would open up the game so much, even if it required you to jump through hoops to get it.

If there's not, I expect an "Unlock All Civs" mod shortly after release.

 

[Nic@Melbourne]

So likely no Greek leader but this was a welcome surprise.

Will play him with Greece 1st.

 

[Vitruvian Guar]

Levying units seems weird given that Machiavelli famously advised not using mercenaries, no?

Of course he advised that.

It's a ploy, so that he would be able to levy them himself.

 

[shaglio]

Common nickname for a man of intrigue.

or a woman, like Moghedien

 

[thecrazyscot]

Machiavelli might become the new meme-master in Civ7: