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New player, some thoughts/questions

Discussion in 'Rise from Erebus Modmod' started by Yutani, Sep 4, 2010.

  1. Tsathoggua

    Tsathoggua Warlord

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    I had always assumed one mage per city buff, so I always went with Earth I. Goodness, but this has possibilities. :p
     
  2. Jheral

    Jheral Prince

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    As I recall, they will have a mana maintainance cost when that is in, so they won't be free bonus buildings for much longer.
     
  3. Andvare

    Andvare King

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    One mage can maintain all four spells.
    It doesn't even have to be him that cast the spells, he just have to be able to.
     
  4. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    exactly.
    you can start by summoning mindI
    next turn earth I,
    next turn creation I,
    then next turn spirit II.
    (hell, even force III if you have it... but a bit too much to hold an archmage immobile in one city)
    all with the same unit.
    or all the same turn with 4 units and only 1 stays in the city to maintain all the temp buildings.
    but the one staying has to be able to cast the spells.

    It works the same way with bodyI : while a BodyI caster is on the stack at the end of turn, the "hast" promotion stays on the units of the stack without having to recast it.
     
  5. Fleme

    Fleme Obey the Kitty!

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    I'm fine with careful city placement and all that. I've always been a player for health but it just pains me that whatever I do I end up facing unhealthiness. It's good to hear that you've somewhat overhauled the healer mechanics though, but I'd still like to point out that a settled great healer will be at 6 health 3 science while the regular is at 4, 1 respectively. Compare the "great" counterpart to other great guys and you'll see that the great healer is still lacking. A great sage is 6 beakers 1 hammer as opposed to just 3 beakers, great merchant is 6 gold 1 food as opposed to 3 gold and so on. You can see the the "basic" effect roughly doubles and that the addition is just gravy. With that in mind, the Great Healer would do good at 8 health, 2/3 science if it were to compete with the other great people.

    As far as the great healer as an unit goes, nerf. I've not yet familiarized myself with this modmod enough to say whether you just made medic 3 heal an absurd amount but you should tone the great healer unit healing down or restrict them so that they can't leave your own empire because with some gear a melee unit can be at 20% healing on it's own and topping that off with 60% from a great healer medic is too much. Part of warring should be having to worry about how far you can stretch your troops and not just count on them being able to fight full strenght every turn. All in all if M3 is really this powerful, it should be toned down, don't you think?

    I'll edit more later, lunch break starts now!

    Lunch over, resuming!

    Now, I personally don't have a big problem with the health issues per say but it just pains to see how badly the AI deals with it. I mean, FFH2 and Fall Further both have AI's that do their job and play out their part but sadly RifE AI is not up to par. I do not mean to belittle your efforts at all but it's just not fun when the AI doesn't know how to play, tech, expand, wage war... anything. It's so very painful to see Lanun with Hannah not building any coves nor improving their land terrain either. It just sits there in a jungleridden city with 7 warriors and 3 fishing fleets doing nothing. Clearly something with that particular AI is broken even further than with the others.

    Edit: I'd also like to point out that civilizations like the Malakim that start deep in the desert surrounded by flood plains will never amount to anything with health being as is.
     
  6. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    You have a point about the GH; I'll look at bumping it up. However, it is also the only specialist that directly influences your growth rate, so we have to take that into account; 6vs8 is 3vs4 pop.

    We have not touched Medic 3 at all. Really though, it's not that powerful itself; It's typically only available to High Priests.

    I'll likely remove it from the specialist... However, I'm curious where your 60% number comes from. The spell uses python, and it's calling it as '<PyResult>spellHeal(pCaster,20)</PyResult>'... The 20 is the % it heals. So it should be about a 1/3rd of what you say.

    Yes, the AI will be taught to handle it. We didn't do it initially because we weren't sure what form it would be in after a patch or two; With things in flux, you can't teach it to the AI. Same reason we have not bothered with Naval Invasions yet; Unit lines will be significantly changed, so we aren't going to teach it how to use one effectively until after that is done.

    Assuming Odalrick finishes it in time for 1.31, the AI will be teching fairly well.

    Actually, Malakim suffer far less unhealth from floodplains than others do. 0.2:yuck:. Even if COMPLETELY surrounded by floodplains, that is only 4 :unhealth:, which will ALWAYS be countered. Literally, always. That is the minimum amount given by difficulty. Then you have extra from freshwater, capital bonus, trait bonus, etc. Malakim are fine.

    Scions are hit a bit harder.
     
  7. MaxAstro

    MaxAstro Spiral Knight

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    I believe he is talking about the static effect of the Medic III promotion, that it increases the healing rate of all units on the tile by a total of 60%, counting the lower medic promotions. Combined with actually casting Heal means an army generally only needs to stop attacking for one turn to be at full health - which is fine if it is something that comes in at the end of a tech tree like High Priests do, but is very powerful on turn 50-ish when you can have your first Great Healer by. I personally think Great Healers should be only as powerful as Priests at healing by default, and then possibly have the tech Medicine grant them Medic III.

    Right now, Great Healers are such powerful unit support that it's hard to justify settling them - except maybe one for an Apothecary so you can buy the horribly powerful Potions of Restoration.
     
  8. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Ah, forgot about that effect, okay.

    And yes, they'll lose Medic3
     
  9. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    so GH are too powerful ? I thought they were "we don't want GP" as they were not interesting ....
    (sarcasm inside)
     
  10. MaxAstro

    MaxAstro Spiral Knight

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    They are in fact both. :) Early game, I always find myself going for a great healer, sometimes two if I really want an apothecary. Once I have a great healer for my stack of death, though, I have no interest in them because there is little point in having multiple apothecaries and the settled version is crappy. Plus, by then, I usually have a different kind of GP to focus on.

    Of course, part of this has to do with my prior bad luck with great people; it's enough that I really don't like that settled great people give GPP because it means if (for example) I am going for the master's hall, I can't settle any great people in my capital because it'll taint my engineer pool. Sure it's not really that bad, I just don't trust my luck. :)
     
  11. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Sigh. The settled GPs giving GP points was added because people complained there wasn't enough reason to settle them. Now people complain the other way. :wallbash:
     
  12. Freesmog

    Freesmog Skeptic1938222569

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    Fair Enough.

    What's to puzzle out? Kill Streaks? Aircraft bombings? :D

    I think a game like Civ and an RPG, leading to an MMO is pretty ideal, i.e., for a gaming company.
     
  13. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Well, the 'puzzle it out' was in reference to the combination of Call of Duty and Soul Calibur. :p
     
  14. Freesmog

    Freesmog Skeptic1938222569

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    Kind of reminds me of the Stormbringer Elric series. Pretty cool. Nothing wrong with that at all, I'm all for it. Just let us know what you're doing :p
     
  15. Breez

    Breez King

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    Hmm (please forgive the over simplified numbers here) So if I have a 10 pop city that is 20:yuck: if I have 15:health: that leaves me with -5:food: from whatever my :food: income is. Now if I gain a population point I am at 11 pop, with 22:yuck: and 15:Health: for -7:food: assuming the person works a grasslands so it is providing +2:food: to cancel out what it is eating.

    If I change this newest person into a Healer in 1.31 then I am at 22:yuck: but 19:health: for -3:food: HOWEVER the person is no longer working the grasslands proving the +2:food: meaning I am at -5 food again.

    My point is that at +4:health: and 1:science: a healer only cancels it's self out and all you are actually gaining for that new population point is +1 beaker.

    I guess I am really saying is that healer is still an extremely poor choice. It doesn't actually help your city it simply doesn't hurt it. As far as Unhealth goes it is simply a wash.
     
  16. MaxAstro

    MaxAstro Spiral Knight

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    Haha. Don't get me wrong, I am of two minds about it. The only reason I don't like it is because I am so picky about what great people I get from my main great person production city, so if I get a great person from a lair or event, I have to settle it in a secondary city. I actually love it in any game where I'm not going for specific great people.
     
  17. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Personally I dislike the GP giving points as well.
    It just makes them do more harm than good.
     
  18. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    how about settled GP giving "free" gpp..
    everybody's happy ?
    GP get use... but don't inflence the gpp ratio...

    @Breez : it seems you missed something :
    a healer is : 4:health: 1:science: +3gpp so a global income of 1:science: +3gpp
    else, you can count a craftsman as : +2:hammers: -2:health: -2:food: 3gpp = total : -2:hammers: +3gpp.
    counting that way, a healer is way better than a craftsman or sage or priest.
    it is just that it is easier to calculate the yield of a healer versus it's :food:/:health: value than others specialists.
     
  19. MaxAstro

    MaxAstro Spiral Knight

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    If that could be done that would be awesome. Is it possible to give untyped GPP?
     
  20. Meldon

    Meldon Warlord

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    But then what happens if you get enough GPP for a GP but only have untyped GPP?
     

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