[BTS] New Shadow Game...But with several twists!

[CGQ]

Instead of the usual settings, I've been winning a lot of Immortal domination games lately so I decided to try a Terra map this time

Spoiler Settings/Start :

So I rolled a random Terra map and leader and looks like we got Louis XIV:


Settings:


Yup that's right. Turned on both Raging Barbs and low sea level. Never played with it before so I'm down for the challenge!

And another twist...

2 extra AI's!

Yup we will be sharing this old world with EIGHT other "lovely" leaders! That should make a nice snug fit!

And here is the start!


Shame we don't start with fishing. I do like industrious and creative and I definitely think creative will be useful culture-wise with our extra AI buddies.

What do you think I should do here? No fishing but with AGRI maybe settle on PH where warrior is or SIP and get fishing later? Corn I'm not sure if it'll be irrigated or not since it's by sea water.

 

[coanda]

I'm torn between SIP or settling on the warrior. Both look like pretty strong fast starts.

 

[krikav]

Should be incredibly cramped so getting land will be important.
On the warrior hill does claim more land, and it's a much stronger location production wise, cows are 6-yielders and you get the city center hammer.
Corn comes online same turn though since it's two turns traveltime for the settler and one for the worker.
Corn will not be irrigated, seawater is not freshwater.

The big thing with SiP is that it has very good potential for a burst of early commerce with two clams and two lakes.
With SiP, it's also likely that you can settle a second city 4S1E which is also on a hill and claims cow.

I think I like SiP abit more, fish->mining->BW

 

[Gwaja]

Raging barbarians and extra land on top of extra AI... 2 at that even! Should be quite fun.

Settling decision... production vs commerce it seems. Both the 2S or SiP seem good for different reasons. SiP means all three food sources are in the 1st ring, which means sharing them with another city gets slightly more difficult unless we are okay with placing the 2nd city a bit crammed.... not a big deal usually and I do like settling cities with sharing tiles but as a Creative leader, it is a bit different I think. It may be too much food for the capital initially.

 

[coanda]

With SiP, it's also likely that you can settle a second city 4S1E which is also on a hill and claims cow.

The way it plays into other cities is actually one of the things I kind of like about moving at the start. Moving south boxes out land a bit more effectively, and gets an earlier boost of production. Which means I'm pretty sure you'd be able to get a city 2N2E of starting settler (clam, clam, corn, bunch of mystery tiles including some jungle) and another city 1N2W of the settler (clam, rice, what looks like some jungle and other mystery tiles). It's a nice little compact, fairly dependable 3-city empire that I *know* would be good enough to get to Construction or Horseback Riding for a breakout if it turns out there's no better spots you can beat the AIs to.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I'm guessing you are contemplating SIP because of the Raging Barbarians beacuse normally settling on a grasslands hill is an awful move?

 

[sampsa]

normally settling on a grasslands hill is an awful move?

I disagree with this. I'd much rather settle on a green hill than a river green flat for example. Latter can get a -neutral cottage, former can not.

 

[Gwaja]

Well... if we are really short on hills to mine for production, then I would not settle on the hill, but with bronze working, we do get at least 3 hills with SiP, so no big deal. I am not sure what the tiles look like to the north, but I would like to avoid a situation where we are stuck with too much food for just one city at the very start.... hopefully not likely though.

I am liking more the warrior spot for a production capital. It gives us the extra hammer in the city tile, still retains fresh water and has enough food for us to work 1 grassland river tile for cottage and 2 grassland hills that can be mined without having to chop forests first. Plus, we don't start with Fishing....

 

[sampsa]

Well... if we are really short on hills to mine for production, then I would not settle on the hill

But what do you need to produce that you need mines for? Only wonders, everything else is either whippable and/or slowbuildable (workers/settlers).

 

[sampsa]

I think I'd rather SIP, though ph has merit. I think I'd move if it was 1T away. Note also the mystery tile 2W of cap

 

[krikav]

@coanda I had sort of similar reasoning for staying in place.
That will guarantee enough early commerce to get a HA or construction attack going without any trouble.
But with CRE, settlement on the warrior spot and going writing through AH could also serve as that early extra tech boost.

I thought briefly about the hill and raging barbs, that is absolutely a small bonus, but with so many AIs, barbs are unlikely to be a problem anyway.
Only time settlement on a hill is a problem imho, is if you lack any production tiles at all for the very early game (getting out a few warriors, and/or getting a few natural hammers to finish the granary or such things.

A 2F1H is often preferable to a 1F3H tile.

 

[Fippy]

Maybe GLH with SIP?
Just so inexpensive with IND for what it gives, can prolly be done while expanding.

 

[Gwaja]

But what do you need to produce that you need mines for? Only wonders, everything else is either whippable and/or slowbuildable (workers/settlers).

Wonders of course!! ^_^ Like the Great Lighthouse. We are Louis, gotta build wonders

 

[CGQ]

Maybe GLH with SIP?
Just so inexpensive with IND for what it gives, can prolly be done while expanding.

Spoiler Played To Turn 30 :

Decided to settle on warrior. Really liked Coanda's idea on having multiple cities in that area:


Teching AH then Writing.

Turn 4 we meet our first of many AI's...Incas.


Turn 5 We meet Cyrus and Cap borders pop.


Turn 6 we meet Brennus:


Turn 8: Inca's borders. Maybe a worker steal is in order?


Turn 12: Oooh hello free worker!


Now you're MY worker. Mine!!!


Turn 14: My own worker is in and ready to improve cows! AH is in next turn:


Turn 17: I safely escort my new worker while cows improved.


Oh and looks like that "mystery" tile might be useful after all! Horse rush time!


Turn 21: We meet George Washington:


Turn 24: Starting first settler to settle for horses. Meanwhile our free worker started on a road to the next city and our own worker will help:


Oh and note that Raging Barbs are no joke! I didn't mind that archer on that last pic until he came into my borders...on turn 26!! Usually they come in way later but I guess that's part of Raging Barbs mode.
Then another archer showed up on the NW side and killed both of my workers. My capital would've been doomed since I sent that other warrior south so...

RELOAD TIME!

Went back and replayed the last several turns.

Turn 27: We meet Ragnar:


Turns 28-29: Lost my first warrior to a barb archer on the NW side. Archer took serious damage so 2nd Warrior finished him off at 96% odds battle!


Turn 30: Made Peace with Inca's and Writing is in! What to tech next? Fishing? Here' our land so far:


*I definitely need to spawn bust the southern parts or else I'm screwed lol.

So we got a free worker and there is some really nice land around us. That wet rice + stone spot on the south at the end of the river could help us with industrious wonders. Pyramids maybe? Definitely a spot to settle soon.

Horsies are high priority so will settle 1S of rice. Barb defense with chariots would be nice. HA rushing is definitely a possibility here though I haven't done one in a while. After settling what next?

 

[coanda]

As a tiny piece of worker micro, I would have skipped that last road tile south of the rice. It'll take the settler 1 turn to move onto that space either way, and founding the city would automatically place a road on the spot as well.

 

[sampsa]

As a tiny piece of worker micro, I would have skipped that last road tile south of the rice. It'll take the settler 1 turn to move onto that space either way, and founding the city would automatically place a road on the spot as well.

1S of rice is three tiles away?

Writing is in! What to tech next? Fishing?

I don't like the tech path. What do you do with writing? Yeh CRE libraries are cool, OB can be good if you get a religion etc... but the issue is that you are massively delaying BW. Chopping early is just so much better than chopping late, and you have an extra worker to take even more advantage of chopping.

Though maybe your idea is to get the GS as soon as humanly possible to bulb maths? Interesting, and definitely could pay off, but you are sacrificing expansion.

 

[coanda]

1S of rice is three tiles away?

Hmm. Counting to three is proving surprisingly difficult for me today.

 

[CGQ]

1S of rice is three tiles away?

I don't like the tech path. What do you do with writing? Yeh CRE libraries are cool, OB can be good if you get a religion etc... but the issue is that you are massively delaying BW. Chopping early is just so much better than chopping late, and you have an extra worker to take even more advantage of chopping.

Though maybe your idea is to get the GS as soon as humanly possible to bulb maths? Interesting, and definitely could pay off, but you are sacrificing expansion.

I usually go BW first too, but I took krikav's advice on going writing through AH but maybe he meant get BW/Pottery then AH? I'm confused lol

@coanda I had sort of similar reasoning for staying in place.
That will guarantee enough early commerce to get a HA or construction attack going without any trouble.
But with CRE, settlement on the warrior spot and going writing through AH could also serve as that early extra tech boost.
A 2F1H is often preferable to a 1F3H tile.