New Version - 1.3.4 (December 27, 2021)

[Acme]

I'm playing on 1.3.4, I was playing on 1.3.1, I saw this bug and yesterday I installed this new version 1.3.4, but bug is still there. Maybe I need to clean cache or temp files, because I installed new version on 1.3.1? Or maybe bug isn't fixed, like happen for me many times, when after testing I see I don't fixed bug?
I also run game with (over) More Unique Components for VP (v 74) and Alternative Difficulty for VP + City State Changes (v 9).

I find out, what was causing the problem it was milae alternative difficulty mode (https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/alternative-difficulty-mod.668184/page-4 v9). It's already v10, so I don't know if this new version problem is solved.

 

[JNZS13]

Any chance a new version pops up this weekend?

 

[Zanteogo]

Took a break for a bit and trying this version.

Noticed the AI is starting wars that seem to have zero benefit to them again. Seen multiple friendship backstabs. When it occurs against me they usually happen without the "I DECLARE WAR!" message, so I don't know if it's due to them attacking vassals or what.

 

[Teholb]

Took a break for a bit and trying this version.

Noticed the AI is starting wars that seem to have zero benefit to them again. Seen multiple friendship backstabs. When it occurs against me they usually happen without the "I DECLARE WAR!" message, so I don't know if it's due to them attacking vassals or what.

They seem a lot more opportunistic, imo. When I'm doing well on the early game, they tend to leave me alone. If I'm lagging behind due to wonders or some other narrow build, I get declared on quite a bit. This is especially the case in the very early game- sometimes they will declare without ever sending a single unit, not even a PF for pillaging. That doesn't really make a great deal of sense to me, but aside from the very early game, they seem to wage war effectively.

If I had to take a guess, I'd say it's in the time prior to them getting catapults that they make questionable decisions.

 

[Zanteogo]

I'm cool with them being opportunistic, seeing them take up backstab flags for fake wars is strange. (wars were you can't expect much, if any actual combat)

Again, most of these wars seem to occur without the standard war message. I think this occurs when someone attacks your vassal?

 

[Teholb]

I haven't seen any wars without a declaration. I do agree that backstabbing is a bit more common than it should be, especially for nothing-wars where they don't actually advance.

 

[Bruhmoment]

Ironic, patch notes say less backstabbing yet people report more. I do seem to notice that the resources seem less scarce - though I did see furs in plains NEXT to tundra, and salt in desert

 

[Recursive]

Took a break for a bit and trying this version.

Noticed the AI is starting wars that seem to have zero benefit to them again. Seen multiple friendship backstabs. When it occurs against me they usually happen without the "I DECLARE WAR!" message, so I don't know if it's due to them attacking vassals or what.

They seem a lot more opportunistic, imo. When I'm doing well on the early game, they tend to leave me alone. If I'm lagging behind due to wonders or some other narrow build, I get declared on quite a bit. This is especially the case in the very early game- sometimes they will declare without ever sending a single unit, not even a PF for pillaging. That doesn't really make a great deal of sense to me, but aside from the very early game, they seem to wage war effectively.

If I had to take a guess, I'd say it's in the time prior to them getting catapults that they make questionable decisions.

I haven't seen any wars without a declaration. I do agree that backstabbing is a bit more common than it should be, especially for nothing-wars where they don't actually advance.

Residual side effect of fixing the DP bug, I think - AIs are more aggressive than they're intended to be. I'll revise this.

 

[Rekk]

Ironic, patch notes say less backstabbing yet people report more. I do seem to notice that the resources seem less scarce - though I did see furs in plains NEXT to tundra, and salt in desert

Were the furs on a river?

 

[azum4roll]

Were the furs on a river?

Nah that should simply be impossible. It could be a non-standard map.

 

[MontyJava]

I've played a few games with the recent patch (CPP+just AI from CBO). Thoughts:

TL;DR: less bribe wars, more wars of aggression; tactically the AI need to PUSH when they have clear advantage.

DoWs are non-stop sometimes, literally, I played an entire game that I was in non-stop war from about T90 on. I never once DoW'd another AI, took a city (like I could), or even dissed anyone, at least until I got 6-piled at one point and finally could get ahead of the situation afterward. I got caught in a DoW/diss spiral that I couldn't escape from. I even had one of them as a coreligionist, super friendly most of the game (Maria), then backstabbed for no reason ($$$). At the same time, due to mass-dissing, I couldn't get DoFs or DPs until around the Industrial era.

On the one hand, this was probably the most fun I've had with Civ in a long time, and ranks among my favorite all-time C5 games, and an extremely satisfying if late win. On the other hand, it was ridiculous and frustrating being so locked out of positive diplomacy because of the diss spiral. I think a lot of it was just geography, though. The map divided into two large factions eventually, and I was about 80% of the border between them for the early to mid game, so every army came to me from the opposing faction. Eventually, it opened up.

I would say, as such, the AIs mostly made good DoW decisions from a grand strategy/faction standpoint, and I just got unlucky with placements.

Tactically, the AI continue to be useless and far too passive. For sure, had even half the AI pressed me with their armies, I would have lost at some point, certainly in the 6-pile. They don't seem to war to win, just to dance armies around, even when they commit troops (50% of the time at best). When I'm facing 4:1 numerical odds (note: I jacked up every strat's mil training rating to 7 or 8 for fun), they should be shoving armies at me full blast, but they rarely did anything close.

I'd much prefer a tactically aggressive AI that's more even handed diplomatically, but I recognize you're working with what you have on that front.

I do like the aggression actually, it makes the games actually challenging. It just needs to be less "I'm bribed into this" and more "I want to steal your land right f'in now". Don't overfix this and make the AI both tactically and diplomatically passive.

[I'm assuming the tactical AI changes are in CPP as I didn't see them explicitly in the CBO files. If they're in there, then you can ignore my tactical concerns I guess since I likely accidentally turned them off.]

 

[Recursive]

I've played a few games with the recent patch (CPP+just AI from CBO). Thoughts:

TL;DR: less bribe wars, more wars of aggression; tactically the AI need to PUSH when they have clear advantage.

DoWs are non-stop sometimes, literally, I played an entire game that I was in non-stop war from about T90 on. I never once DoW'd another AI, took a city (like I could), or even dissed anyone, at least until I got 6-piled at one point and finally could get ahead of the situation afterward. I got caught in a DoW/diss spiral that I couldn't escape from. I even had one of them as a coreligionist, super friendly most of the game (Maria), then backstabbed for no reason ($$$). At the same time, due to mass-dissing, I couldn't get DoFs or DPs until around the Industrial era.

On the one hand, this was probably the most fun I've had with Civ in a long time, and ranks among my favorite all-time C5 games, and an extremely satisfying if late win. On the other hand, it was ridiculous and frustrating being so locked out of positive diplomacy because of the diss spiral. I think a lot of it was just geography, though. The map divided into two large factions eventually, and I was about 80% of the border between them for the early to mid game, so every army came to me from the opposing faction. Eventually, it opened up.

I would say, as such, the AIs mostly made good DoW decisions from a grand strategy/faction standpoint, and I just got unlucky with placements.

Tactically, the AI continue to be useless and far too passive. For sure, had even half the AI pressed me with their armies, I would have lost at some point, certainly in the 6-pile. They don't seem to war to win, just to dance armies around, even when they commit troops (50% of the time at best). When I'm facing 4:1 numerical odds (note: I jacked up every strat's mil training rating to 7 or 8 for fun), they should be shoving armies at me full blast, but they rarely did anything close.

I'd much prefer a tactically aggressive AI that's more even handed diplomatically, but I recognize you're working with what you have on that front.

I do like the aggression actually, it makes the games actually challenging. It just needs to be less "I'm bribed into this" and more "I want to steal your land right f'in now". Don't overfix this and make the AI both tactically and diplomatically passive.

[I'm assuming the tactical AI changes are in CPP as I didn't see them explicitly in the CBO files. If they're in there, then you can ignore my tactical concerns I guess since I likely accidentally turned them off.]

Thanks for the feedback!

Tactical AI is @ilteroi's domain and I encourage everyone to report any issues with passive tactical AI on Github.

Yes, the vast majority of tactical changes are part of the Community Patch.

 

[Bruhmoment]

Thanks for the feedback!

Tactical AI is @ilteroi's domain and I encourage everyone to report any issues with passive tactical AI on Github.

Yes, the vast majority of tactical changes are part of the Community Patch.

I've had poland declare war on me in the ancient era which is good for the A.I and they took a city, but wow was it annoying.
Do see less bribed wars though, which is nice

 

[JNZS13]

CP + CBO only

How this dude have so much gold on 74 turn?
And why he's so petty?

 

[DanielSPoA]

has anyone had problems with AI accepting friendship? twice I asked for friendship and got a NO in response, than they offered friendship the next turn.
its like an ego problem lol (but no major repercussions)

 

[ilteroi]

I've played a few games with the recent patch (CPP+just AI from CBO). Thoughts:
Tactically, the AI continue to be useless and far too passive. For sure, had even half the AI pressed me with their armies, I would have lost at some point, certainly in the 6-pile. They don't seem to war to win, just to dance armies around, even when they commit troops (50% of the time at best). When I'm facing 4:1 numerical odds (note: I jacked up every strat's mil training rating to 7 or 8 for fun), they should be shoving armies at me full blast, but they rarely did anything close.

try increasing the value of COMBAT_AI_OFFENSE_SCORE_BIAS and see what happens. might turn them into suicidal maniacs, who knows.

 

[MontyJava]

try increasing the value of COMBAT_AI_OFFENSE_SCORE_BIAS and see what happens. might turn them into suicidal maniacs, who knows.

Thanks! You say "suicidal maniacs" like it's a bad thing.
I'm hoping it will lead to better snowballs at a minimum, which creates its own challenges aside from having armies thrown at you with reckless abandon.

I'll report back once I get a good game going.

I see a few other options in that file. Any more files/options to consider? In particular, the AI seems bad at concentrating attacks to actually eliminate units, or wasting bombardments on heavily fortified units.

Also, any way to get them to utilize 2+ UPT? I've had to "house rules" not cheese 2UPT since AI refuses to stack (outside of forts/citadels oddly). I guess their "where to place unit" logic says "-100 if tile currently occupied" somewhere in the code, but the bonus from a citadel overcomes that malus usually.

Also they routinely abandon citadels rather than using them as anchor points for a defense. I can't imagine a human EVER abandoning a citadel, even in the worst case.

 

[MontyJava]

CP + CBO only

How this dude have so much gold on 74 turn?
And why he's so petty?

I had that last game and more. I got a 10G nat wonder plus a lot of gold/gems in my capital. Rare, but it happens. Ahmad gets petty.

has anyone had problems with AI accepting friendship? twice I asked for friendship and got a NO in response, than they offered friendship the next turn.
its like an ego problem lol (but no major repercussions)

I struggle to get DoFs with more than 2 AIs in a 16AI game usually unless we fight together.

 

[JNZS13]

Rare, but it happens

what map you play in this particular save?

Ahmad gets petty

god damn ahmad

 

[DanielSPoA]

is it viable (easy to implement) an option for asking the AI to spread their religion to you? lol
only after the max religions are founded I guess, and you are not the founder of any of them.