New Version - April 30th (4/30)

[suriv]

Just finished a game with Arabia .. playing again for a CV victory (Emperor, Standard speed .. and with no wars .. and no city captures ,, no bullying AI or stealing their workers with scouts etc). I literally played and won with Arabia two weeks ago using the pre tech lock version (~ turn 260) and was trying to quantify the impact. This game ended on turn 416 ( with a diplomatic victory) having finished the tech tree and researching future tech multiple times. Social policy wise, I got the entire order ideological tenets, traditon, artistry, statecraft, industry and 5 of the rationalism.

Other civs in the game were Iroquois, Byzantium, Spain, Russia and Portuguese. I was influential with everyone except Hiawatha (tech leader along with me in industrial era) by turn 270. Spain which was bullying everyone fought with Hiawatha and started losing cities. Hiawatha started warmongering and occupied most of the Spanish and Portuguese cities and got sanctioned (my influence level was at 88%). I picked order and the very next turn he got Freedom and for the next 114 turns I never could get influence up.

So I had two options .. a. Propose repeal of sanctions, antagonize the entire world. b. Beat the **** out of him till he becomes my vassal ..

Problem with the first is that it will become similar to my previous game with Brazil with all the perpetual wars. And if I choose the second, it might as well be a domination victory as beating Iroquois with 16 cities over 80% of the map. The tech lock for CV really makes it not feel like a CV anymore.

Anyways .. looking forward to the next version. The changes look awesome .. but it seems the tech lock (and wonder) are here to stay.

 

[Great Ape]

While I certainly can't comment on immortal and deity games, I have to say that on emperor difficulty I have not struggled with happiness in my past several games in current patch. For reference, I've been playing a mix of Ethiopia and Persia, standard speed/size, pangaea, thick style (either authority or progress, usually followed by fealty). I am not all out aggressive but I do maintain a healthy military and will gladly grab cities if the situation allows for it.

What I have learned through personal experimentation is that there are three main points for me to maintain happiness.

The first is simply planning- timing expansions, learning when to hold back or prioritize growth, long-term efficiency versus immediate needs, etc. I will note that I highly value the flexibility that a happiness surplus provides.

The second is that no matter what, in nearly all situations, production cannot be neglected. In my experience, high pop and low production will always eventually lead to difficulty in keeping up. I mean, sure, if I can hit some kind of special power spike via a certain policy, tech, wonder, city location, etc, it might be ok to focus on a different yield or delay a production building for a little while. But I find that getting ahead in tech, for example, doesn't do me much good if I lack the production to produce the (relative to turn) expensive buildings and units I've unlocked, policies for wonders, and supply cap and gold income to maintain adequate military. So at least in my playstyle, production and infrastructure are critical priorities regardless of VC.

Finally, I find that I must be realistic about what is achieveable based on my current infrastructure and happiness surplus. If I'm hovering around +5 happiness, I'm not likely to go on a military rampage, even if my neighbor is looking weak and tasty. Likewise, I think it's often greedy to spend precious hammers to build that juicy wonder when there are high-impact buildings available on the cheap.

My last comment would be that I've found that citizens will often request things that benefit me anyway. I try to kill as many birds with a single stone whenever possible. If I can increase my gold or culture or science yields and make my pop happy at the same time, that feels good and efficient to me.

I know many of you know this mod much better than I, but I thought I'd chime in and hopefully my comments might be helpful to someone.

 

[scrunchy]

Got a quick question: When you complete a City State quest for conquering a city, is the XP reward supposed to be between 450-600 (or so) XP each unit? Asking as the tool tips for the rewards stated between 150-186 (or so) range those 3 times.

 

[Bascule2000]

Got a quick question: When you complete a City State quest for conquering a city, is the XP reward supposed to be between 450-600 (or so) XP each unit? Asking as the tool tips for the rewards stated between 150-186 (or so) range those 3 times.

The most I've ever seen is 50XP / unit. 20XP is more normal. Are you sure you weren't looking at the influence you would gain from the quest? 150 influence wouldn't be outrageous.

 

[scrunchy]

The most I've ever seen is 50XP / unit. 20XP is more normal. Are you sure you weren't looking at the influence you would gain from the quest? 150 influence wouldn't be outrageous.

Nope..was XP not influence. All my existing units now have 1100+ XP - most are fully maxed out on promotions.

 

[scrunchy]

The most I've ever seen is 50XP / unit. 20XP is more normal. Are you sure you weren't looking at the influence you would gain from the quest? 150 influence wouldn't be outrageous.

Found a file called QuestChanges.sql where it sets Influence to 80, GlobalExperience to 15 and Randmod to 5 for the quest "MIN_CIV_QUEST_UNIT_GET_CITY" but not sure how it changes the 15 to 150-186 range...

 

[Moi Magnus]

Got a quick question: When you complete a City State quest for conquering a city, is the XP reward supposed to be between 450-600 (or so) XP each unit? Asking as the tool tips for the rewards stated between 150-186 (or so) range those 3 times.

If you could post it on Github, that would be great.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Got a quick question: When you complete a City State quest for conquering a city, is the XP reward supposed to be between 450-600 (or so) XP each unit? Asking as the tool tips for the rewards stated between 150-186 (or so) range those 3 times.

Maraton? The rewards which are written are not what you get. They're 150% of the said value on Epic, and 300% on Marathon.

 

[Moi Magnus]

Maraton? The rewards which are written are not what you get. They're 150% of the said value on Epic, and 300% on Marathon.

If it is maraton, it is also worth posting on Github. Maybe the 300% is applied twice. (once from base value -> tooltip, and once from tooltip -> real XP)

 

[scrunchy]

If it is maraton, it is also worth posting on Github. Maybe the 300% is applied twice. (once from base value -> tooltip, and once from tooltip -> real XP)

I think I was getting 3 times what the tool tip said.

 

[scrunchy]

Maraton? The rewards which are written are not what you get. They're 150% of the said value on Epic, and 300% on Marathon.

Yes, Marathon. Even then seems excessive for XP (450-600 x 3).

 

[wistak]

Why on lower speed there is more convenient?
Shouldn't it work conversely?

 

[Tekamthi]

Why on lower speed there is more convenient?
Shouldn't it work conversely?

I think its cuz any corresponding requirements are also 300%.. ie it takes more xp on marathon than standard to get to next lvl.

That said, I'm not sure it needs to be multiplied this way... you get more opportunities per era to complete CS quests already on the slower speed. Its almost a sure way to the top on marathon to chase down all the CS quests possible.. maybe this aspect is worth a look re: balancing marathon.

 

[Mad Madigan]

I've gotten the CS quest that awards unit XP enough to confirm that it does in fact double apply the Epic/Marathon scalar twice. The scalar is applied first to the quest description, so for example on Marathon, a 15 XP reward would become 45 XP. But then when you complete the quest it is multiplied by the scalar again, so that 45 XP reward becomes 135 XP when it is applied to each unit. It seems like it has been bugged this way ever since unit XP requirements were scaled to game speed (units require 3x more XP per level on Marathon).

Also, the rate of CS quest generation does NOT scale with game speed, so players can complete close to 2x / 3x more quests on Epic and Marathon as compared to Standard if they really try.

 

[scrunchy]

Loaded up a previous save to get better info:

When hovering over the city state circle on right side of screen, it states the reward will be 186 xp and 338 influence.

Capturing the city then actually gives 558 xp and 338 influence.


Not sure if the 186xp is correct amount to begin with but it is indeed multiplying that amount by 3 again. I have a feeling that the 186 and the 3 multiplier are hard coded as I can't figure out what file contains these 2 values of some sort.



EDIT: This bug has been marked as Fixed for upcoming patch.