New Version - September 19th (9/19)

[Gothic_Empire]

Anybody has any answers for me,or am I posting in wrong place?

The Plague / Health mod does not mix well with VP, in my experience.

 

[Txurce]

I could have SWORN I've pillaged with a scout before.

I certainly have. And stolen settlers, too. One of my scouts singlehandedly crippled the Maya in one game.

I think he means the AI.

 

[Gazebo]

I certainly have. And stolen settlers, too. One of my scouts singlehandedly crippled the Maya in one game.

I think he means the AI.

Correct.

G

 

[Gothic_Empire]

I see this brought up a lot, and I just want to clarify – most Unique Improvements are not intended to be universally spammable. They have specific guidelines, some more strict than others, but the general idea is still one in which you find 'perfect spots' to build them. The Terrace Farm follows this rule. It is an incredibly good tile improvement that takes a specific setup to build.
G

I rolled an Inca game just now because you got me excited talking about them, and then I researched animal husbandry and remembered that the "Inca Are Not Allowed To Build Their Unique Improvement" phenomenon is basically a gorram repeatable bug.

This is representative of every Inca start I've ever had. Note sheep locations. Like, seriously, just blow through ten or so Inca starts and count up how many times your UI will get any adjacency bonuses at all from mountains.

It's not unplayable, it's just anti-fun, especially if you play with the default hidden bonus resources and have been scouting out good terrace farm locations. You hit animal husbandry and, without fail, there are sheep where you wanted them to be.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

Ironically, the best use I've ever gotten out of Terrace Farms was in deserts, by shunting food down to wheat tiles and taking the Desert pantheon. The power of finding an 8 or 9-food hex (with improvements) is awesome, but those are really rare. Arguably as rare as appropriately jaggy coastline. And sheep on hills next to mountains are absurdly common.

I really, really think the Incan UI needs some love for how it's allowed to be placed.

 

[Gazebo]

I rolled an Inca game just now because you got me excited talking about them, and then I researched animal husbandry and remembered that the "Inca Are Not Allowed To Build Their Unique Improvement" phenomenon is basically a gorram repeatable bug.

This is representative of every Inca start I've ever had. Note sheep locations. Like, seriously, just blow through ten or so Inca starts and count up how many times your UI will get any adjacency bonuses at all from mountains.

It's not unplayable, it's just anti-fun, especially if you play with the default hidden bonus resources and have been scouting out good terrace farm locations. You hit animal husbandry and, without fail, there are sheep where you wanted them to be.

People want the Terrace Farms to connect these resources, right? That's my problem – it becomes difficult to control for coding purposes, especially b/c of how the builder AI treats resources.

G

 

[matlajs]

sheeps origin is certainly not in america. terrace farm ability of delete sheeps would cover fact, they shouldnt be nowhere near their starting location.

 

[Funak]

People want the Terrace Farms to connect these resources, right? That's my problem – it becomes difficult to control for coding purposes, especially b/c of how the builder AI treats resources.

I don't think anyone is asking for them to connect, this they want them to either remove the sheep or just ignore the sheep.

But yeah even ignoring resources creates huge problems for automated workers, I mean automated workers as Morocco and Polynesia can't seem to grasp that concept at all.

 

[tu_79]

I don't think anyone is asking for them to connect, this they want them to either remove the sheep or just ignore the sheep.

But yeah even ignoring resources creates huge problems for automated workers, I mean automated workers as Morocco and Polynesia can't seem to grasp that concept at all.

My last Inca game had many terrace farms, so I can't complain. I'd just like to note that there is a folder for balancing civ abilities. I understand the talk about Japan here as it has been changed this version, but not the Inca.

 

[matlajs]

ignore them would also lead to some rly strong tilles bcoz of stables. i think remove them would be better.

@tu : i see nothing bad in discussing potential future stuff/suggestions. i know there are threads about it, but best place where to mention it is hot place.

 

[ExpiredReign]

Perhaps we should start a specific thread to discuss all the unique improvements and see how to best deal with these situations?

1. Should they connect resources, bonus, strategic or luxury?
2. Should they ignore them?
3. Should they remove them?
4. Expand or restrict their possible locations?

I sometimes have to check whether improvements, especially GP ones, connect resources and often choose another tile to plop it down. TBH I haven't had too much experience with Inca or Dutch so not much input there.

 

[Enginseer]

Perhaps we should start a specific thread to discuss all the unique improvements and see how to best deal with these situations?

1. Should they connect resources, bonus, strategic or luxury?
2. Should they ignore them?
3. Should they remove them?
4. Expand or restrict their possible locations?

I sometimes have to check whether improvements, especially GP ones, connect resources and often choose another tile to plop it down. TBH I haven't had too much experience with Inca or Dutch so not much input there.

Kill the sheep. It's only useful to non-Inca civs because pasture are often better than mines.

 

[Strigvir]

Isn't removing too much? Just ignoring is enough.

 

[thecraftybee]

Terrace Farm converts sheet to llamas!

 

[Gothic_Empire]

People want the Terrace Farms to connect these resources, right? That's my problem – it becomes difficult to control for coding purposes, especially b/c of how the builder AI treats resources.

G

I'm in the camp of wanting the Incan terrace farm to obey the same resource placement rule the Polynesia Easter Island Head Thingies obey. But I'd take really anything over how it works now.

Can sheep perhaps despawn when they get placed next to mountains on Los Incas home continent?

Can the Terrace farms be placable on flat land next to mountains too, at least slightly improving the odds of getting placable spaces? (I don't like that, but compromise is the spirit of this, yeah?)

Can the farms ignore sheep but no other resource?

Can they improve sheep, but add no bonuses from doing so? Can they improve sheep, but remove the bonus resource extra yields to avoid uber tiles? (So sheep under Terrace farms adds -1 food or something?)

Can it cull the sheep? Maybe add a small boost of food to the closest city, ala clearing forest. (OP and probably complicated...)

Terrace Farm converts sheet to llamas!

 

[Gothic_Empire]

. I understand the talk about Japan here as it has been changed this version, but not the Inca.

 

[Gazebo]

I'm in the camp of wanting the Incan terrace farm to obey the same resource placement rule the Polynesia Easter Island Head Thingies obey. But I'd take really anything over how it works now.

Can sheep perhaps despawn when they get placed next to mountains on Los Incas home continent?

Can the Terrace farms be placable on flat land next to mountains too, at least slightly improving the odds of getting placable spaces? (I don't like that, but compromise is the spirit of this, yeah?)

Can the farms ignore sheep but no other resource?

Can they improve sheep, but add no bonuses from doing so? Can they improve sheep, but remove the bonus resource extra yields to avoid uber tiles? (So sheep under Terrace farms adds -1 food or something?)

Can it cull the sheep? Maybe add a small boost of food to the closest city, ala clearing forest. (OP and probably complicated...)

Curious question - what if I added an element to the UI that made it such that sheep simply do not appear on the map for that civ? I think you can still build the UI on a hill if there if sheep have not yet been discovered. Could be an interesting circumvention.

G

 

[Gothic_Empire]

Curious question - what if I added an element to the UI that made it such that sheep simply do not appear on the map for that civ? I think you can still build the UI on a hill if there if sheep have not yet been discovered. Could be an interesting circumvention.

G

I really like that. Makes conquered Incalands potentially have better tiles for conquerors than for the Inca, but that's always been possible with tech leads, and I think Incan cities are always hard enough to capture that the one extra food or whatever is completely negligible.

Implement as hotfix yesterday.

 

[SpankmyMetroid]

Ehm, are we playing different games here or something? For me the Eki provides food hammers and culture, no gold and no science.

Nope, Ekis start giving science as you go down the tech tree, IIRC capping out at two beakers around ecology (pretty late for the second beaker, but oh well). I might have mixed up gold and culture though.

 

[ColonelCarter]

Nope, Ekis start giving science as you go down the tech tree, IIRC capping out at two beakers around ecology (pretty late for the second beaker, but oh well). I might have mixed up gold and culture though.

1 Food at Chivalry, 1 Gold at Ekinomics, 1 Food at Fertilizer, 1 Prod 1 Science at Ecology, if I remember correctly.