News: BOTM 101 --Starts Feb 10--

[Pangaea]

There is forest SE of the gem in the original screenshot too. As a little aside, why is it so awkward to place rivers in the world builder?

 

[Rusten]

Ah you're right. I got confused. In that case York is delayed by 1T.

 

[Xcalibrator]

Why would you get wheel before BW? The way I would play this start would be:
worker -> warrior -> size 4 settler (whip)
worker farms both corns and then chops a forest into settler. You want to spend as few turns as possible trading 1 food for 1 hammer (making settlers/workers)

Yeah, that was going to be my next trial. Why did I do Wheel before BW? Because when I did the first test with SIP I said "Me see grass river! Me want shiny coin! Me build cottages!" and I couldn't reset my thinking for settling double-corn.

Note: I removed forest in WB from the tile York was settled on as there's no forest there in the original game (saves 1 turn to settle).

No, that really is a forest SE of the gems in kcd's shot, but I see that I goofed again on the river there. Man, I hate doing rivers in WB.

 

[Xcalibrator]

There is forest SE of the gem in the original screenshot too. As a little aside, why is it so awkward to place rivers in the world builder?

Xpost above.

Well, it's awkward for me (although it was easier when I had lots of practice in SGOTMs). I would not be at all offended if someone corrected the test game.

 

[Pangaea]

I tried to correct it, but these diagonal rivers are pretty awkward to 'draw'. Made a testmap for the centennial game, and got it perfect there, but don't think I can be arsed here. I don't feel quite right by playing test games anyway.

Besides, I really want to see what the warrior reveals by moving onto that plains hill, because I don't like the sight of all those plains tiles by the river SW. SIP has 7 grassland river tiles for instance (incl. one FP). I'm a sucker for those

edit: maybe this turned out okay.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I guess we're in the SE corner of the map but I'd check on that before making any settling decision.

How do you do that?

 

[BornInCantaloup]

How do you do that?

Select a unit, press G for "Go to", hover your mouse around :
If you see a tile is 3, 5, 10 or 15 turns away, then its within the map limits.
If your cursor turns black, then its out of the frame.

Works on all Flat maps.

 

[lymond]

The overflow then goes into a worker which is later 1-pop whipped.

eenteresting! Much of what you laid out I would have done. The 1 pop worker whip is a new one. I assume you put OF into another settler, and grow to 2 when you can?

Yeah, drawing rivers are a bit awkward in WB. You have to lay down a river on tiles and then backtrack and do over to get some tiles right.

Xcab - with food rich start, BW is a no-brainer. doing so will change your game. rare cases where you would go to Pot directly like that

 

[Rusten]

eenteresting! Much of what you laid out I would have done. The 1 pop worker whip is a new one. I assume you put OF into another settler, and grow to 2 when you can?

Yeah, probably. OF into settler as the warriors will be almost useless. Then grow while making warrior before whipping it again.

The 1-pop worker whip is crucial as you gain so much from every tile here. Need them improved as soon as possible. A big boon. You're almost there already after the settler -- so much overflow.

 

[Deckhand]

How do you do that?

Select a unit, press G for "Go to", hover your mouse around :
If you see a tile is 3, 5, 10 or 15 turns away, then its within the map limits.
If your cursor turns black, then its out of the frame.

Works on all Flat maps.

Wow, something LowtherCastle didn't know! I'm amazed.


I remember using G in Civ II, but not in Civ IV. I do everything with right mouse button.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Wow, something LowtherCastle didn't know! I'm amazed.

Yeah, and now I wish I didn't know.


But thanks for answering, BiC.

 

[WastinTime]

Yeah, and now I wish I didn't know.

I think that is banned (or frowned upon) in the SGotMs

 

[Jastrow]

My recollection is that Flying camera was officially banned, whereas this trick was discussed, and there was not complete consensus but several teams (including TSR) had agreed not to do it. I personally never do it in GOTM either, but dont think it is a particularly big deal if others do.

BTW, I had one quick run through the test game, and notices that someone built the Oracle on T42!!! (=2320 BC). That is one of the quickest I ever remember. Is there something quirky about the specific test game, or something in the map settings which is driving this??

 

[BornInCantaloup]

@ Rusten :

It's very generous of you to lay down a strong opening like that
I'm tempted to follow it (think I prefer that to settling 1NE, although there are other options - I haven't dismissed 2S2E entirely and 1W also needs consideration, grabbing floodplains).

A couple of things bother me, that may induce me into settling somewhere else :
a) Elizabeth has a hard time popping borders. Splitting the resources we can see in the opening screen between 3 cities isn't very appealing to me. That restrains the settling options by a lot.
b) I'm reluctant to forego the commerce specials entirely. They make stuff like an Oracle gambit or an Alphabet beeline a lot more credible.


From there, there are 2 "ifs" and one "then" :
- If you're going to settle 2S1W ;
- If you're going to whip the first settler at size 4 ;
- Then I'd seriously consider overflowing hammers into another settler rather than into a worker.


It's there ! It's almost there ! Who's going to found Judaism ?
Have a nice game !

 

[Pangaea]

How about touching on something else. Dr Evil has a score of 47. Any idea what techs and other things that could include? Are units added to score, or only land, techs, population and possibly buildings?

edit: Doing a quick little test, there doesn't appear to be anything too fancy. But he could have a pile of units for all we know.

 

[Seraiel]

BTW, I had one quick run through the test game, and notices that someone built the Oracle on T42!!! (=2320 BC). That is one of the quickest I ever remember. Is there something quirky about the specific test game, or something in the map settings which is driving this??

2320 BC isn't fast, I had Isabella build Oracle in 2800 BC already. It's basically simply luck if a civ researches Priesthood after founding a Religion, Isabella and Gandhi do that often because of their religious flavour, I therefore don't take them as opponents in HoF games anymore. Asoka is also a candidate for very early Oracle. Hatty and Ramesses interestingly aren't, because their buildWonderRating is so high, that they get stuck with Stonehenge all the time ^^ .

 

[lymond]

I even avoid Izzy in those low level HOF games, as she can still often nab Oracle relatively early enough to screw over slings. Gandhi can be hit or miss with Oracle but is always a threat unless you just thrash him early, which is often why he is chosen. Also, Justy is a pretty big Oracle threat.

 

[Pangaea]

That's why I avoid Izzy too. She is way too big a threat for the Oracle (and is a religious nutter). To say 2320BC Oracle isn't early is a bit strange though. That's very early -- even if it has gone earlier in the odd game here and there.

 

[Seraiel]

To say 2320BC Oracle isn't early is a bit strange though. That's very early -- even if it has gone earlier in the odd game here and there.

It's not strange, I'd guess it's at least 20% chance that Oracle goes at that time on Deity, a lot more with Izzy, Gandhi, Asoka or Justi. I regard 2000BC as a 50% safe date for Oracle on Deity, 1800BC is already 80-90% unsafe. 2320BC imo. is the upper region of what's normal but it's not early, early for me is when the player wouldn't have even had a chance to build it if he had beelined Priesthood + BW, and even that has happened to me more than once already.

 

[WastinTime]

But this is Immortal, not Deity. T42 is very early for Oracle.