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[BTS] Nobles' Club 200 - Willem of the Dutch

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Fish Man, Nov 10, 2018.

  1. Fish Man

    Fish Man Chieftain

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    It's OK you won't lose. On marathon units are so cheap you can pretty much whip 50 cuirs by 500-600AD and everything is basically as fast as a helicopter.
     
  2. Olafeson

    Olafeson Chieftain

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    Ah another fine day of Civ 4, my cities are doing so fine, every thing is smooth and nice. Next turn :Wait city what, why are you unhappy? Oh 7 Computer players are in emancipation. How lovely.:coffee:

    After countless hours of civ 4, i just realized once again how incredible obnoxious the civic emancipation is. The designer in charge for this masterpiece of game mechanic should be sentenced to pay all civ 4 players a box of beer:devil:. Like right now, he deserves it:satan:

    A.I. player : " Mh i wonder what this civic is that is absolutely useless for me, it only purpose is to piss off the human player" Lets switch into it, like every game, i like it".:drool:

    And better beeline democracy too. End of rant.:hammer2:(Please no forum punishmenterino dear mods, mille grazie)
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
  3. 2popbulb

    2popbulb Chieftain

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    Switch to Monarchy and stack some units in cities. Problem solved. But,yeah it is frustrating as hell especially when UN forces you to adopt it. When I'm going for space I need all the production I can get and there is no way I'm going to switch out of Caste System. Sometimes I even defied UN resolutions until I launched spaceship.
     
  4. elmurcis

    elmurcis Chieftain

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    Funny - played a little bit more and got "you have been defeated" by T500 with no time victory condition "on" :lol:
     
  5. Fish Man

    Fish Man Chieftain

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    Crap...did I mess the WB save up? So sorry..:(
     
  6. Olafeson

    Olafeson Chieftain

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    Deity no Huts / No Events 1808 A.D

    Spoiler :
    Well i defeated Pacal and settled 20 cities on my continent. Unfortunately it took me forever to reach communism and Assembly Line. Even with like 60 cottages and Oxford. The other guys got pretty big on the other continent so i will try to defeat them with tanks, infantry, artillery and fighters+ bombers.
    Like usually in lategame i did build so many stuff with workshops and communism. This time i prebuild watermills and workshops overe my cottages and when i reached assembly line i replaced the cottages with workshops and watermills.

    My golden age was also really late.

    Every city got a factory, a coal plant, a aequaduct, the other health building which i do not know the english name, and later even a hospital and public transport. I also did build a lot of dry docks. Unfortunately i had no oil, but my vassal pacal was so friendly to supply me with it for a hefty price..

    Anyway i did not manage to win the game in 250 turns on deity, but i think i will win dominatioon sooner or later, just have to stop Justinian before he goes to space. But i have time for that.

    Finally got a respectable army, i will now try to vassal mansa musa before Justinian does it. Mansa is in a war vs all due to AP vote. At least he will nto win culture after all. I got delayed a bit because catherine declared war on me, but she never landed an army, just pillaged my seafood. Later i could buy peace for 180 gold only.

    Golden Age.png
    Army.jpg

    I think it is winnable. Just was a bit suprised that it took me so long to tech to modern age. Guess city maintenance was just too big before communism.
     
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  7. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    @Olafeson
    Spoiler :
    Nice going! The bunch on the main island are quite a bunch of techers and catching up might be a gargantuan task.
    I was in so much luck in my game with reaching chemistry first, and then bunnyjumping up my way to almost parity by a chain of trades.
    The land on the island is very good, with some rivers and so much green land (once the jungle is cleared), so I think that it's quite possible to win sooner or later.
    Funny that Justantin vassaled darius in your game. It shows that the situation on the main island can go any way really! :)
     
  8. Olafeson

    Olafeson Chieftain

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    Defeat Deity Turn 296

    Spoiler :

    I was just too lazy kind of to play the endgame properly and i played sloppy, it is tedious to manage 24 cities, catherine wanted me to join her war vs Zara and i declined because i wanted my ships to sail into position for 3 more turns. Then declare vs Zara. But then Zara took 1 city of her and she vassaled. I still declared on both of them and was stuck in a endless lategame war vs the 2 of them. If i just had agreed and delcared vs Zara on catherines request i think she would not have vassaled. Altough not too sure about that.

    Anyway i was pumping out endless amounts of bombers, ships, fighters, tanks and all the other stuff, unfortunately zara reached mechanized infantry, which turned most of the fights into advantageous fights for him. Was too stubborn to buy peace and later Justinian began plotting and then declared on me since he really did hate my vassal Mansa Musa.

    Well i call it a good game at this point, could maybe still bought peace with Zara and his vassal catherine and then fought back Justinian. But i am sure he would have won Space in this case any time soon.

     
  9. Olafeson

    Olafeson Chieftain

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    Anyway thanks for the map @krikav .

    Was fun for the most part. These huge lategame wars i still play out rather poor and sloppy.
    Kind of sad catherine gave in after he just lost only 1 city, she still had like 12- 14 cities.
    Now going to watch another Lain YT video to get over the loss i think.:king:
     
  10. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Not every map can be a win!
    Thank should go to @Undefeatable for providing the map! :)
     
  11. Olafeson

    Olafeson Chieftain

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    Oh sorry i messed that up.

    thanks a lot @Undefeatable in this case.
     
  12. elitetroops

    elitetroops Chieftain

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    You forgot to set MaxTurns=0. You can still edit all the save files and replace the zip in OP of this thread. Might be a good idea since many people are still likely to downoad it and play over the coming years.
     
    Fish Man likes this.
  13. Fish Man

    Fish Man Chieftain

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    Will do sometime this week, thanks for the headsup (though I swear I outright deleted that line...).
     
  14. ArchGhost

    ArchGhost Chieftain

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    Spoiler :
    This is what pretty much happened to me for my first attempt, I took too long teching (going for too many paths with our weak neighbor, at least on Immortal, not pressuring us) and then lost any momentum before it started. Gave up around 1400AD when it became apparent ALL the AIs were leaving me in the dust and I just sucked it up this game :p Chasing two rabbits and all that.

    Specifically, trying to Lib Steel with this crowd probably wasn't gonna turn out so well even though I fixed my Astro bulb thing from last game.

    I'll be trying again sometime, I didn't let the recent Ragnar NC keep me down. I have a curse with using Willem it seems. Lain recently did something in his current Willem map (if he hasn't finished it yet) where he Libbed Astro and then tech to Steel, might try to figure out something along those lines.

    Nice map Undefeatable! I definitely wasn't bored trying to navigate the diplo, every AI had their own religion in my game and the super-continent was pretty spicy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
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  15. Fish Man

    Fish Man Chieftain

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    700AD: almost at gunpowder, going for cuirs. Cathy's extremely behind. I think I'll quickly cap Pacal with cuirs, then move on to Cathy. No need for rifling. Meanwhile I'll tech communism and hopefully be the first to get the great spy. Switch to caste + communism + free religion with golden age, and then tech to cannons/rifles in the meantime. I can probably win against Mansa+Darius with just those, but Justinian and Zara will likely need infantry + artillery. Fingers crossed I can pull everything off in under 250 turns.

    I'll finish this and upload the next NC at the end of next week, probably.
     

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  16. Fish Man

    Fish Man Chieftain

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    1020AD: Pacal capitulates in a 5-turn war after I capture 5 cities. Clean and crisp. Zara is getting physics in one turn, l have NO idea where he pulls his 2000 GNP from but either way 1000AD physics is concerning. But he doesn't have lib so unless he has like 2000bpt he shouldn't be able to beat me to communism, and nobody else has sci meth or lib yet. So, despite all odds, my communism play seems to be working. After squeezing economics and constitution out of Pacal I actually have a slight tech advantage over everyone else. He'll grap rep parts for me and I'll just head over to steel in the meantime. A golden age from Great Shpee + SP + caste + free religion + rep should help develop my economy to the next level, and then I'll actually be able to reach the expensive stuff in a reasonable amount of time, especially when the newly-captured cities start coming online. Plus Pacal's cap is downright JUICY. Health is a minor problem though...
     

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  17. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler :
    Physics?! I was trading him chemistry at that date. :D Sounds like you are in for a long outdrawn slaughterfest at the main continent fightning at technological disadvantage.
    "Your" continent will be a production heaven once you set it up though.
     
  18. Fish Man

    Fish Man Chieftain

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    You know what’s even better? Zara and Justinian have a defensive pact. So I’ll have to take on 24 cities at once, sooner or later. Oh and Mansa remains peacevassaled to Darius and they’re trading like nobody’s business. No wars, period, besides the one I started.
     
  19. Fish Man

    Fish Man Chieftain

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    Played another 15 turns and now, not only do all AIs have sci meth, but only Cathy is missing rifling (and will probably get it in 5 turns). When I got communism nobody even had replaceable parts.

    Ok. Ok. You don't underestimate the tech pace of deity AIs, when literally everybody is trading with everybody else. And you especially don't underestimate Zara with decent land, even when he has just 10 cities. I mean seriously - assembly line at 1300AD, what country does he lead, Wakanda?

    Let's try again, and this time, I'll deny Cathy out of any trades even if it takes giving away techs for free. I'll also go for rifling; if I put beakers into something an AI is less likely to pursue it. And yes, I am replaying turns. Anything to get under 250-turn conquest. I've committed and I can't turn back now, no way. :mad:
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
  20. Fish Man

    Fish Man Chieftain

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    So I had several strokes of luck. First of all this time I managed to lock Cathy out of any trades; she was already 4-5 techs behind everyone else, and lagged even more because I sold democracy to Darius for like 50g so she couldn't make the trade for chemistry.

    Then, after military tradition, she went for...the biology and medicine path of all things? This isn't med school, smh...but that's at least 20 turns where I don't have to face anything stronger than muskets. I took the chance and shipped 25-ish cuirs close to but not at where her main army is, and prayed for the best. Against all odds I took a city, and her stack went back into the city that I left open, by which time I had bombarded it down with frigates. I basically wiped her entire army this way. After I upgraded a couple of cuirs to cavs it was all over.

    After I capitulated her and got some very nice cities in return, I asked her to research physics, and she traded for it with Mansa :eek:!!! But that was the best thing that she could've done, because with her having physics and Pacal getting steel soon, I was on the fast track to artillery. AND - I realized from obsessing over the tech trade screen every turn that Mansa had stopped teching a while ago. He was aiming for culture - and two of his cities were still 100+ turns from legendary. It was just my luck that he turned from arguably the best techer in the game to basically dead weight now. Zara/Justinian are in bed with each other and are functionally in a permanent alliance at this point - same fave civic + same religion + same peaceweight + defensive pact = +20 relation bonus, almost. But Darius was looking pretty juicy, as he has neither steel nor communism to sustain his massive empire of actually pretty crappy cities. And with artillery I'll be easily able to take him out - even if he has rifles which he doesn't yet! Though let's not kid ourselves, he can get them anytime if he wants - that is, if he goes for them and doesn't bot straight for the UN.

    Darius is plotting...something, idk what. Hopefully it's not me, but I begged 50g to be sure. Can Darius plot if he's "pleased" towards me but hates one of my vassals (that is, is plotting based on displayed diplo or "hidden" diplo)? And what determines when an AI feels "confident" enough to declare? Would @sampsa or anyone else be able to answer this? It would be very nice if he declared against Justinian and Zara (DP so it's either both or nobody), and waste some hammers on both sides while slowing down teching.

    Anyways, it seems like the sub-t250 dream is alive and well! Fingers crossed nobody gets infantry anytime soon.
     

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