NOTW LV: The Underground (Game Thread)

[Visorslash]

sprig

if you are town, your best work would be to try and prove choxorn is scum/not scum for tomorrow

but even thats self resolving

because either he was lying about being vengeful lynchee as town which is just terrible play

or hes scum lying about it and we win

or he shoots zack and we win anyway

 

[Sprig]

Why would I push so strongly for a Kennigit lynch yesterday? There was support for a choxorn lynch in Visor and BL that was waiting for the proper nudge, yet I pushed hard in the opposite direction.

Why did you not vote for Kennigit yesterday? [Because he's your orc partner.]

Why have you dropped the choxorn case so suddenly? Why have you stopped going after BL? [Because no one is going to follow you there.]

I was looking for this.

To the first point, the seed was already sown. to claim lynching Kenny was down to you is deceitful. Pretty good attempt to bus though.

Second - I didn't have a vote.

Third - You scattered-guned hard. you pretty much tried to fling as much as you could and hope something would stick and visor or the other would pick up on and pursue. would pick up on stuff. Your questions are equally applicable to yourself. I never really went after choxorn or Bl. Mearly testing the waters.

But you. After I baited you in the first day it ensured that you have always been close to the top of my list.

 

[Visorslash]

i mean there is the paranoia about what if we're completely ing wrong

but it doesn't matter

I can't reiterate this enough, the only world we lose if if choxorn is mafia (BL is pretty much never mafia here).

I'll take another look at him tonight

 

[Visorslash]

FWIW - sprig

the in thread argument on you isn't that great

you voting choxorn means literally nothing considering you had no vote (proven maybe?)

zack for interest whilst i cook dinner

 

[Visorslash]

I'll reread over that day again and see if there is anything I notice

I'd like for you to go over the last day as well and let me know if anything pops out

 

[Sprig]

For the record, I had 0 strength Night 4, when the throttler and axe-killer were both actively murdering people (and BL tracked me do nothing). And the poisoner targeted me with the spores N3, so I can't be the poisoner.

And I've claimed an unverifiable ability that I haven't used, so there's no reason I wouldn't be killing.

[yeah judging by flavour/QUOTE]

so hit but not dead aye?

 

[Visorslash]

I'll be switching back to spirg 95% of the time but the reactions and interest is important

i'd like to hear more from all of you before the day is done just in case the game isn't over with this lynch

 

[Visorslash]

bladescape: 4 Backwards Logic, choxorn, Jarrema, robbiecon
landlubber:4 Legato, takhisis, Winston Hughes, riedquat
johnhughthom:2 spaceman98, landlubber
spaceman98:2 johnhughthom, Zack
Zack:1 bladescape
robbiecon:1 sprig
kennigit:1 visorslash
Not Voting: 5 classical_hero, EQandcivfanatic, Kennigit, Kingmorgan, Double A

spaceman98: 5 Jarrema, Backwards Logic, choxorn, Zack, takhisis
Zack:2 spaceman98, snerk 2.0
johnhughthom:2 sprig, classical_hero
choxorn:2 johnhughthom, kennigit
kennigit:1 Double A
sprig:1 landlubber

Not voting:2 Legato Endless, kingmorgan

classical_hero: 4 visorslash, snerk, robbiecon, johnhughthom
robbiecon:3 Backwards Logic, sprig, kingmorgan
visorslash:2 Kennigit jarrema
johnhughthom:1 classical_hero
Not voting: 3 choxorn, Zack, Legato

Jarrema: 5- visorslash, robbiecon, johnhughthom, Backwards Logic, Zack
robbiecon:3 - Sprig , Jarrema, Kennigit
Kennigit:1 - Choxorn
Not voting:1 Legato Endless

 

[Sprig]

I'll reread over that day again and see if there is anything I notice

I'd like for you to go over the last day as well and let me know if anything pops out

Time up for me but i will have a look tommorrow morening but that will be cutting close to time.

Before I leave.


@ Zack, i am flipping town so you really should be laying down your argument why you're innocent and why chox is guilty because pretty much your lynched otherwise. Best get in early.

@ Choxorn. Noticeable lack of contribution from you. Feel free to articulate why you think why zacks points have any merit. Also might pay to put down your case why zack is guilty because he will be doing the same about you come tomorrow.

@BL. You are actually tactically better off switching your vote. When I flip town, you're the priority target. Where as if Zack's gets lynched, even if i were Orc, I can't kill due to block.)


Ciao

 

[Visorslash]

Sprig:
Argument for being scum: Claimed an odd ability where he pairs players together so that roleblocks or kills affect both paired players (post 364). DISCREPANCY: N1, he claims BSmith and Takhisis were linked together by his hand (post 367), but also claims no one had died yet. However, we see BSmith killed Night 1 by throttling, meaning Takhisis should have also died too. Also never claimed why he paired those players together when asked. Additionally, no claimed actions N2.
Argument against being scum: Was tracked N3 as doing something to both Visor and JHT. I'm not sure how this plays out with JHT flipping scum, but the only thing it does prove is he wasn't throttling, burning, or axing N3. He could be the break-downer or poisoner though, depending on how his ability works. Sprig - clarification please?

Quote for BL

from his own posts

Its also interesting to not zack is the last to vote kennigit (though that might be more to do with timezones than anything)

 

[Visorslash]

The day ends at 9am my time. I'll be up an hour or so before to talk.

I hope there is some productive discussion even though this day seems straightforward

 

[Visorslash]

that works for me. My votes is supposedly not worth anything but Choxorn

this doesn't really seem that scummy to me

honestly i'm tempted to think zack threw out a bus which is entirely likely

there is a few passages that make me think that

 

[Visorslash]

@BL
@choxorn

one thing that pccurs to me is that we know sprigs power

we don't 'know' zacks. If he has some sort of extra kill thing he can do we lose

 

[Visorslash]

We need to look to see if zack actually pushes his scum leans at any point

IIRC he pushes both jarrema and kennigit after the wagon is established

let me check and do some rereading

 

[Zack]

I was looking for this.

To the first point, the seed was already sown. to claim lynching Kenny was down to you is deceitful. Pretty good attempt to bus though.

lol

So you voting for choxorn and not speaking out against Kennigit at all is a "spurious" reason to lynch you, yet pushing for Kennigit's lynch obviously makes me scum?

Second - I didn't have a vote.

lol x 2

You know what I mean. This is just a technicality that avoids the question.

Third - You scattered-guned hard. you pretty much tried to fling as much as you could and hope something would stick and visor or the other would pick up on and pursue. would pick up on stuff. Your questions are equally applicable to yourself. I never really went after choxorn or Bl. Mearly testing the waters.

lol x 3

So me actually discussing stuff yesterday (in which, it should be noted, I never took my vote off Ken and always insisted/made it clear he was the top target) makes me scum because you decided to not actually contribute? You were "merely testing the waters" while I "scattered-guned hard"?

Just to be clear: Sprig is trying to spin him voting choxorn and not doing anything at all to help the town yesterday as somehow clearing him, yet me actually talking stuff out and lynching an orc somehow makes damns me. And my arguments were weak and spurious? Your argument is essentially that I played well, therefore I'm mafia, which is ridiculous.

Should also note that all of your "arguments" ("you voted for an orc and were around yesterday to discuss things") apply equally to Visorslash, but there's no possibility of anyone following there, so you're not pushing it.

But you. After I baited you in the first day it ensured that you have always been close to the top of my list.

lol x 4

This is nonsense.

 

[Zack]

We need to look to see if zack actually pushes his scum leans at any point

IIRC he pushes both jarrema and kennigit after the wagon is established

let me check and do some rereading

are you serious

I voiced suspicions of Jarrema, choxorn, and Kennigit before it was cool (and also jht when it might have already been cool), in that post you keep quoting and saying "this is really good". That was way back.

 

[Zack]

this doesn't really seem that scummy to me

honestly i'm tempted to think zack threw out a bus which is entirely likely

there is a few passages that make me think that

No. If I was Kennigit's partner I would have pushed for the choxorn lynch people were open to, under the pretense that he could fire at Kennigit anyways. That way a non-orc also dies with my orc partner. I generally don't bus this late in the game, I even criticized ATPG in Ciretako post-game for unnecessarily bussing his teammate in the endgame. I think I've played differently here than I do as mafia.

 

[Backwards Logic]

@BL. You are actually tactically better off switching your vote. When I flip town, you're the priority target. Where as if Zack's gets lynched, even if i were Orc, I can't kill due to block.)

Are you saying you're still blocked from doing any actions tonight? I thought Visor's strength reduction was only temporary? Shouldn't you have 1 strength tonight?

I have a hard time getting around the fact you were effectively roleblocked last night and there was no kill. The last time I doubted a roleblock that had that effect I almost let a scum off the hook (Newyn in NOTW LIV). I think doing so again would be a mistake here as well.

@BL
@choxorn

one thing that pccurs to me is that we know sprigs power

we don't 'know' zacks. If he has some sort of extra kill thing he can do we lose

While we know Sprig's power, it could just be a secondary ability for killing with the caveat he can't pair anyone his teammates are targeting. I don't think we lose anyway tonight even if we're wrong and Zack has a kill. choxorn has an immovable three strength to Zack's one, so right there we're safe.

 

[Zack]

@ Zack, i am flipping town so you really should be laying down your argument why you're innocent and why chox is guilty because pretty much your lynched otherwise. Best get in early.

@ Choxorn. Noticeable lack of contribution from you. Feel free to articulate why you think why zacks points have any merit. Also might pay to put down your case why zack is guilty because he will be doing the same about you come tomorrow.

Why only specifically mention me going after choxorn here? I'm more certain that he's not orc than anyone else, even BL, because of his interactions with orcs. It makes no sense for you to maintain that I have to make a case for choxorn in particular. I think this is a subconscious slip - the orcs have been trying to get rid of choxorn through means other than the nightkill all game, and so when you think of who to lynch your thoughts naturally go to choxorn first when that doesn't make sense from a townie's perspective.

If you're really town and convinced me or choxorn is an orc, then it doesn't matter if you're lynched today, the town will still win. We'll have another 48 hours to discuss things, so why are you so concerned with getting all of that in today? Because you know the game ends with your death today?

 

[Visorslash]

Zack your last sentence is similar to what im thinking

(cant sleep)

Kennigit wasnt unnecessarily bussed

But you have points