NotW LVII - Tempus Fugit (game thread)

Gun to head this is where roughly where I'm at

TOWNY
Lohrenswald
Dicetosser1
Cuthillius
Askthepizzaguy
Takhisis

NULL/NEED MORE
Golden1Knight
Snerk
Sprig
Choxorn
Mat93
Lassie
KingMorgan

NULL-SCUM
DuffKilligan
Al Sipsclar
Kennigit
Murska

SCUMMY
Newyn
Atheotes
Zack
Autolycus
Jarrema

I seriously need to get to bed. FTR I won't be back until evening after work and related chores tomorrow.

Cass, please explain why you find me to be scummy. I can understand pizza feeling a bit weird about me...i usually dont support him so easily. So my D1 vote may not sit well with his meta read on me. Also, i believe that my D2 post was probably made while he as composing his list and explanation. But you, i would like to know the reason.

I have never played with you before. Normally the kind of "away for a while" message you have posted is used by people who are very worried they might get votes on them while they are away or who don't want to return to make posts/vote changes. Maybe some one who knows your meta can understand better.

May be i am biased, but your analysis looks forced and scummy. be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety
 
I wonder why my vote on Auto was not registered in the tally. Was it simply overlooked, or maybe I am under some kind of influence?

Just for be sure, I will once more vote: Autolycus
 
What posts from me have pinged you, Mat93?

Could you elaborate a little more on Newyn " looks very hiding in plain sight for me." is something that could easily be said about 7-8 persons in this game
 
Well, at least I was right

Jarrema or Autolycus should die today

Those 2 mainly. The first one giving the impression of 'I tried to stop us lynching a townie, therefore I must be town', in a very mild way. The second one...feels out of place. Minor gut feel.


Also, Duff was pinging me before. Just similar behaviour to Visors finished game.

Spoiler :
ATPG: How confident are you that Autolycus is scum here? Would you bet your life on it if given the choice?

Not threatening Pizza. If Pizza is confident enough in his read on Auto, I'm going to consider taking a (crazy) leap of faith.

Fair enough. vote: Autolycus, let's see what this gets us then.

Considering everyone has some sort of ability, I'd say it's not that improbable.

Why is my first thought that of a Pizza/Cuth/maybe DuffKilligan wolf conspiracy?

Also, why are we assuming a vig made one of the kills? In a game with this many powers, I wouldn't be too surprised if scum has at least limited double night kills.


What makes you think those roles can claim so easily Pizza?
I've been clearly told that if I claim it, I lose it and my ability is arguably only marginally useful.

In all of that, there isn't exactly any useful information (plus the rest I didn't quote). A lot of asking other people, and not really giving reads or leans himself. The information he gives is all game mechanics wise, and rule related, aside from hinting at this role.


Its mostly the game mechanics information that pings me, its helpful, but its not exactly relevant to finding scum.
 
Winston Hughes has now replaced DuffKilligan.
 
Late-Morning Tally

Autolycus (6): Newyn, ATPG, dicetosser1, Cass_, KingMorgan, Jarrema
Jarrema (2): Lassie, Takhisis
dicetosser1 (2): Cuthillius, Zack
Al Sipsclar (1): Snerk
Newyn (1): Mat93
Zack (1): DuffKilligan (pre-replacement)

Not Voting: Everyone else
 
On a second read, I'm here with my suspects:
jarrema+murska+duffKilligan - semi not liking: zack+dice+snerk
I could see a w/w connection between zack and dice, based on their interactions.

not liking the popularity of the autolycus wagon, and jarrema's:
welcome to my world.

On unrelated note, if you guys think that either me or Auto have to be scum, I will happily vote: Autolycus

makes me think they aren't w/w, not just because of the vote in itself, but also the words he puts into it

so I'd much rather like to see Jarrema lynched, against murska as counter wagon.

probably too late, but well, these are my thoughts
 
Noticing at once the lack of roleplaying and huge thumbs in the Citadel, Lady Weston-Hogues shook her head in disgust, and set about the grim task of catching up with events to date.
 
Hello, Lady Weston-Hogues. My, everybody seems to be very interested in little old me. I'm hardly a premier member of the Order, but I'm no Varethite.


KingMorgan, you say the case on me is thin, and yet you're still coming after me? That sounds like a Varethite trying to have things both ways.
 
I do find it dull that the game's "analysis" has basically devolved into cross-referencing behavior across recent games
 
What makes you think the attempt was made by a Vig?


Why, for each of these?


I can agree with this for now. Tempted to switch to Auto over Jarrema.



I think the reaction to votes is null at worst for now FWIW (AFAICT Tak is always reactive to votes on him, and was perhaps moreso in Rappers where he was Town than Snakes where he was maf).

Why do you say 'his entire world'? Considering Tak has actually been questioning and providing views on other players/events it makes the whole thing seem rather opportunistic imo.


This I can at least agree with.



Dice! FTR noted/mindmelded with pretty much all of this :D. Dice's early snap at Zack also consistent Town meta IMO but
*Crashtackles*
Why are your thoughts/opinions/reasoning on each of the last (bold) actions? - And why did you leave the reasons out?

Summary thoughts on above in case previous TLDR/skimming.

[/B]Lassie - feels considerably different to last game, particularly volume/out-there-ish-ness. Not a fan of the lack of activity in the build-up to EoD/abstention from the vote. Mindmelded wrt Lohr in the beginning but on re-read ?sheeping Cuth and Spaceman? Some concern over Auto discussion early day 2 and push for Jarrema over Auto but eh ?tinfoil w/o flips.

Tak - also different to last game but not necessarily in a suspicious way. FWIW I specifically pushed him to try changing his meta to be more helpful in the DT of Rapper's game so it's potentially something like that. I like that he's posting clearer thoughts/reads/questions and tinfoil on buddying etc aside think changing his style this much as scum would probably be overly risky. Apart from the 'why didn't we lynch Lohr' I'm liking his pushes and questions. I'll lol if he is scum because I thought the same a lot of the time in Snakes when he was even less clear, but I'm not voting him any time soon simply for that change.

Zack - is possibly scummy for his jumping on Tak and Dice. ?Opportunistic with Tak and seems overly reactive to Dice's pushing. Also ?fits the deflect/discredit meta. Need to know if Zack also does this when coming under suspicion as Town.

Dice is looking ok to me. The only difference to his usual meta so far is his hedging on me/putting a caveat in that I could be scum, and this could go either way. Responses to Zack and Tak actions is typical Town for Dice. He's a valuable towny to have around for gut reads I won't be voting him today. FWIW general meta says if he's scum he'll start getting more hedgy and less beligerent and it should be fairly obvious as time goes on.

FFOS at Jarrema for knowing he might be today's lynch but not giving any reads;

FOS at Pizza for making a considerable push at me that avoids/dismisses discussing content and before attempting to discuss/understand what's going on - ?outside meta/opportunistic. Possibly relevant if he's not solidly clear/is still alive by end game.

Sorry for multi-posting. Really not sure how to address this during catch-ups tbh.



hiya cass!

auto I think it was desperation he needed to go somewhere and lohren was under some pressue

mat if ure convinced enuff to get off how is it a compromise to go back? and why would u. Was weird and I don't get it

lohrens vote was the one negative I had against him in that time. I have to think he would have changed if needed based on his posting at that time

the way zack did that whole quote from another game felt off. like he was waiting to use it


As for reading you I may get burned a few times but eventually I learn not to put my hand in the fire
 
whoever did steal from me, please claim in the thread


because instead of some garbage ATPG has of like whisper that he is a member of the order or something (there's some name for that role, different from innocent child), we can actually have 2 confirmed townies if you are willing to be open and freely discuss

or, at the very least, make yourself traceable so that if day 3 and day 4 come around everyone isn't just asking "where's poochy that thief guy kennigit talked about before being nightkilled n2 or something"



as a member of the order, we must protect all time streams. past, present, future, ad those ones we never talk about (protip: don't drink and timedrive)


ummm what??? I didn't get it when pizza said it but thought maybe it was just cause of the way he talks.

So someone claims to be the vote thief and ure gonna insta read him town?? WTH???


don't have much time, but quickly before I go

what is dicetosser's scum meta? pizza if you (and I think cass?) are so sure he's town because he plays like this as town (i.e. his town meta is to play like scum), how would he look different if he was a wolf?

because all I see is a wolf playstyle, for reasons I already mentioned



I wanna see this too :D from both of you altho cass hit some points already but they arnt wholly accurate tho some hold to them
 
So someone claims to be the vote thief and ure gonna insta read him town?? WTH???

no, but they can be 100% accountable in every night action they perform, are accountable n1, and not be some unknown when days 4 or 5 come in to play
 
Sorry typo. I am asking you to think about it further.
oh. I thought you were saying your read of me changed based on that post, which is what I found scummy about you. I take that back.

I still don't know how that makes him town, ignoring any meta arguments.

I think the reaction to votes is null at worst for now FWIW (AFAICT Tak is always reactive to votes on him, and was perhaps moreso in Rappers where he was Town than Snakes where he was maf).

Why do you say 'his entire world'? Considering Tak has actually been questioning and providing views on other players/events it makes the whole thing seem rather opportunistic imo.
Look at his votes and the reasoning behind them. He is hyper-concerned with getting lynch votes off himself. His ATPG read was entirely based on whether or not Pizza was voting him (voting Tak ---> scum must die; unvote Tak ---> town hero).

Why are your thoughts/opinions/reasoning on each of the last (bold) actions? - And why did you leave the reasons out?
good luck, I've been trying to get reasons out of him with no response other than smug deflections

addendum: oh gee he actually responded

Strange question IMO. How are the two of you at all similar/related?
Should be obvious, go look at eod yesterday. Plenty of other people have pointed out this connection, it's pretty much the whole reason anyone is voting for me or auto.

3. How many games have you played with Zack as Town/Scum? How confident are you in your ability to read him?
Sprig (and Visor) would both tell you they are good at reading me. What this really means is that at some point they will conclude I am scum with varying degree of certainty (:p).

FWIW the bold at least is generally how Town!Dice hunts those he thinks are scum. Gut read on something that stands out, followed by obstinate vote...
fwiw that's not a good way to actually find scum

Zack, can you link me to a recent game where you played Town?
I can give you a rundown of games of note later. I doubt you'll want to read through all of them, and I'm not sure how helpful reading through a single game will be, as my playstyle isn't always consistent from game to game.

Zack - is possibly scummy for his jumping on Tak and Dice. ?Opportunistic with Tak and seems overly reactive to Dice's pushing. Also ?fits the deflect/discredit meta. Need to know if Zack also does this when coming under suspicion as Town.
Overly reactive how? Go back and read what I was saying, I was asking him to explain himself (he refused) and pushing my own case on him. In fact, I ignored him d1.

How does this fit the deflect/discredit meta? Find me a specific instance, preferably multiple.

Well he's being awfully quiet. But I can be persuaded otherwise if you've got something better?
So? Being quiet doesn't mean he is scum.

I could see a w/w connection between zack and dice, based on their interactions.
there is one wolf there, i'll give you that

Hello, Lady Weston-Hogues. My, everybody seems to be very interested in little old me. I'm hardly a premier member of the Order, but I'm no Varethite.


KingMorgan, you say the case on me is thin, and yet you're still coming after me? That sounds like a Varethite trying to have things both ways.
Can we hear more from you and your thoughts? You're probably getting lynched today.

the way zack did that whole quote from another game felt off. like he was waiting to use it
For the record, I was not around the ~15 or so hours leading up until about 15 minutes before the deadline, so I was trying to think quickly. Not really any time to prepare. Why would I wait, anyways, and what makes that suspicious?

I saw Pizza (iirc) mention an early post spaceman made in this game was scummy, which reminded me of the recent game where he was lynched d1 as scum, where I found an extremely similar post to the one atpg was taking issue with, and I thought it was a good connection.
 
ummm what??? I didn't get it when pizza said it but thought maybe it was just cause of the way he talks.

So someone claims to be the vote thief and ure gonna insta read him town?? WTH???
tbh I assumed he was just trying to bait an obviously scum role into revealing himself. that role is never town
 
well, maybe not never town. admittedly there have been notws with townies having scummy powers
 
well, maybe not never town. admittedly there have been notws with townies having scummy powers

this game is going to be chalk full of "townies lying to other townies for no reason at all." Because if this thief does not make themself accountable, eventually like night 4 they are going to get discovered, will be lynched in some hubbub around day 5, and everyone will have to ask "where's poochy" "why weren't you just honest way back on day 2"

it's frustrating
 
So? Being quiet doesn't mean he is scum.
Of course not. But keeping a low profile can be an indication of scumness. And at any rate it isn't very helpful for the town. Al is certainly capable of being a very useful townie.
 
okay cass, here you go. Also linking to recent scum games, because going off a sample size is 1 is silliness.

TOWN:
Spoiler :
Red Dwarf Mafia - killed fairly quickly, but a pretty good picture of town zack. You can probably skip d1, it was mostly majiffy being a dick.

NOTW: The Underground - I was town and lived the whole game.

Mafia Game in the East - had a good run before I died

NOTW: Return to Ciretako - killed immediately

The Inquisition - don't remember this one too well, it was a particularly low-effort display on my part. not that relevant

Pirate Ship Mafia III - I was very active in a very active large game, but it was different enough from standard mafia in ways that influenced my behavior (eliminating the scum was not always my top priority at the time). I was mostly content with killing people and getting gold, mostly killing people. Note the final gold totals and my placement in relation to ATPG, which I will never stop rubbing in his face. :D

Age of Kings - mini game. we lost because I was exactly right (for once) and no one listened to me.

High Society - visor was a lurkerscum in this game believe it or not

Jumping Mafia - I was terrible in this game. Quick read, not sure how enlightening it will actually be.

A Powerpuff Sleepover

This is Madness! - I was lynched d2 while the game was still in joke phase. A weird game, a lot of people were acting way outside their usual selves.


SCUM:

Spoiler :
2015 Mafia Champions: Game 1 - swept. this and aspiring rappers are probably the best place to look for my scum meta.

Aspiring Rappers Mafia - swept. you know this one.

Faster than Light - 3 man scum team with choxorn and another person who is not in this game. fairly vanilla, maybe completely so (don't remember). half the size of this game. swept. some commentary on my behavior afterwards.

A mafi(y)a game - not that interesting to look at. scanned n1 and promptly lynched for it.

Soul Scourge - swept. 2 man scum team. the nature of this game made me think that to have any chance of winning, my teammate dying would pretty much doom me (and vice versa), so I was connected to my partner in a way I usually would not be

Christmas Special - lazied my way to victory

That's more than enough. also, not a recent game, but my playstyle is still mostly the same as then. in darths & droids I started town and converted to cult partway through the game, eventually pulling out the solo victory. Try to spot any behavioral differences between town Zack and cult Zack. Try to figure out if you can pinpoint where I was converted (hint: it's later than you probably think).
 
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