[NFP] October Update

Most people especially on the forums are builder types and dislike/hate warmongering/domination type civs. Most also do not play multiplayer either so singleplayer bias is a tad strong as well. Any civ strong in that regard will get calls for a nerf. I think they should just buff up the other civs to have just as many bonuses as the newer civs instead of nerfing individual civs. To be fair some of the GC criticizers want the general stacking to get nerfed, but nothing else, which isn't a horrible idea, but it is better for the game's design to just level out the others if you are going to power creep multiple other civs (Gaul, Byzantium, etc) like that.

If that is true it makes me wonder why people call for nerfs in the first place. Its not like some highly competitive multiplayer game. The time they spent planning and implementing a nerf they could have been looking back at an older civ and seeing what they could do to make it more fun and interesting.

Unless people are genuinely getting steam rolled by AI Bolivar and want to clip his wings in some way.
 
If that is true it makes me wonder why people call for nerfs in the first place. Its not like some highly competitive multiplayer game. The time they spent planning and implementing a nerf they could have been looking back at an older civ and seeing what they could do to make it more fun and interesting.

Unless people are genuinely getting steam rolled by AI Bolivar and want to clip his wings in some way.
A nerf doesn't have to mean that the Civ becomes less fun to play. For Gran Colombia they're just too easy to play as, since they get everything for free. If they were nerfed in a way that made it so you actually have to earn your bonuses, or had some limitation that made it so you had to play them in a different, more interesting way, then that nerf would make them more fun to play as. GC is definitely a civ that needs this kind of nerf to make them more interesting to play, and to make them more balanced for Multiplayer (Korea needs this too).
 
Ok so what exactly is the Byzantium bug? No one in this thread has answered it yet and a random screenshot just gets thrown at us without any description.
 
A nerf doesn't have to mean that the Civ becomes less fun to play. For Gran Colombia they're just too easy to play as, since they get everything for free. If they were nerfed in a way that made it so you actually have to earn your bonuses, or had some limitation that made it so you had to play them in a different, more interesting way, then that nerf would make them more fun to play as. GC is definitely a civ that needs this kind of nerf to make them more interesting to play, and to make them more balanced for Multiplayer (Korea needs this too).
I cant comment on multiplayer balance but there seems to be conflicting opinions here at least. We don't have any gurantee that a GC nerf is going to open the civ up into some new way to play. Theres always a chance the nerf is just a brute force application that leaves GC with little to reccomend it. People who liked the civ before are dissapointed and people who did not probably won't be either.
 
Ok so what exactly is the Byzantium bug? No one in this thread has answered it yet and a random screenshot just gets thrown at us without any description.

I have already read about two bugs affecting Byzantium (being able to built both Waterpark and Hippodrome if you start with the former / getting HC units multiple times when conquering, losing and reconquering foreign cities), but I doubt it is one of them.
 
Ok so what exactly is the Byzantium bug? No one in this thread has answered it yet and a random screenshot just gets thrown at us without any description.
There are two different bugs, and possibly a third, that I'm aware of.
  1. Being able to construct the Hippodrome UD in a city that has already built a Water Park. Bug report thread and fix can be found here.
  2. Basil's LUA, dealing full damage to cities, is supposed to apply only to cavalry units. It appears to also affect melee units. The thread can be found here. (This is what Lily's screenshot is showing earlier in this thread.)
  3. The last one concerning Heavy Cav units received repeatedly from conquering, losing, and reconquering cities with Entertainment Complexes (i.e. Hippodromes) could possibly be a 'bug', but I'm not convinced yet that it's functioning differently than intended. Not sure if there's a specific thread about it or just various comments in the forum.
 
There are two different bugs, and possibly a third, that I'm aware of.
  1. Being able to construct the Hippodrome UD in a city that has already built a Water Park. Bug report thread and fix can be found here.
  2. Basil's LUA, dealing full damage to cities, is supposed to apply only to cavalry units. It appears to also affect melee units. The thread can be found here. (This is what Lily's screenshot is showing earlier in this thread.)
  3. The last one concerning Heavy Cav units received repeatedly from conquering, losing, and reconquering cities with Entertainment Complexes (i.e. Hippodromes) could possibly be a 'bug', but I'm not convinced yet that it's functioning differently than intended. Not sure if there's a specific thread about it or just various comments in the forum.
The last one sounds interesting. Does it give you multiple units if the EC has some buildings in it?
EDIT: I could not seem to be able to replicate the last bug. When I conquer an entertainment district, I don't receive anything. The free unit, if I were able to receive it, should spawn in the city that gets conquered, correct? Considering the wording of this district applies only when it and its buildings are "constructed" (which is similar to the Statue of Liberty, Potala Palace and Mahabodhi Temple when it comes to the dip vic points), I don't think it will grant or is supposed to grant units when flipped.
The first two bugs I can confirm.
 
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I've definitely had the "free" Tagma bug hit me when playing Byzantium. I've had it happen when I take a city with an encampment and EC but I'm not sure if it happened in other cases. In that case the new Tagma pops up on the encampment's hex. I noticed it in a game where I was rolling over Shaka so he had an encampment in every city but one had an EC and I got a new free Tagma when that city fell.
 
The last one sounds interesting. Does it give you multiple units if the EC has some buildings in it?
Yes. They appear in a stack wherever the city’s military unit spawn is (city center or encampment if it has one.) like multiple units stacked up on one tile, I mean.
 
The last one sounds interesting. Does it give you multiple units if the EC has some buildings in it?
EDIT: I could not seem to be able to replicate the last bug. When I conquer an entertainment district, I don't receive anything. The free unit, if I were able to receive it, should spawn in the city that gets conquered, correct? Considering the wording of this district applies only when it and its buildings are "constructed" (which is similar to the Statue of Liberty, Potala Palace and Mahabodhi Temple when it comes to the dip vic points), I don't think it will grant or is supposed to grant units when flipped.
The first two bugs I can confirm.
I can confirm the last bug, which i can link a save file for. Just keep taking london and let it flip back. rinse and repeat. lots of free tanks.

the building of the 2 amenity districts if done in the right order is also there. i dont recall if i was able to do the melee do full damage to walls bug earlier in the game.
 

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As is obvious, and normal in this forum, there are several differing opinions regarding GC. I played them once, and thoroughly enjoyed the extra movement. also, the ability to promote and then still attack was really nice. But as a builder, it really didn't make much difference. Also, in my last two games GC has been one of the AI civs. They have done well, but not super, in one. And I really found it interesting that in my current game, their military strength is zero. They wanted me to join them in a joint war, which I declined; and then when I checked his military strength, I was shocked to see that he had zero. He had more than this at one point in the game, so obviously someone has eliminated all of his troops. Personally, I like them just like they are, and I'd hate to see them nerfed at this point. I see them as a military civ that you have to be careful about, especially early in the game, but not overpowered [at least not for an AI] as the game goes on.
 
If that is true it makes me wonder why people call for nerfs in the first place. Its not like some highly competitive multiplayer game. The time they spent planning and implementing a nerf they could have been looking back at an older civ and seeing what they could do to make it more fun and interesting.

Unless people are genuinely getting steam rolled by AI Bolivar and want to clip his wings in some way.

My sentiments exactly. We do have to keep in mind that many players do not play Emperor to Deity. Many play Prince. I cannot remember the last time I played a Prince game, the AI feels like it is just standing around doing nothing and all the wonders can be built. Then again, some people have lost games on Prince and King for sure on this forum. Maybe GC rolled them, but I doubt that. The AI seems too stupid to play them correctly for some odd reason. Also like someone else said above, if these players using GC can easily roll the entire map without trying they probably feel like it isn't fair, when they lose games playing with other lesser civs.
 
If the AI would use their great generals for something other than scouting, maybe Gran Colombia could pose a mid game threat.
The ability to level up without losing a turn is extremely powerful. But again, in the hands of the AI it is hardly a bonus. Thus AI GC is mediocre at best. In a MP, it might be a different case, but there’s balancing mods and stuff like that if you want that kind of thing.
Don’t think it needs to be nerfed. It is just a really powerful military civ to play with. Nothing wrong with that
 
So is there any new information on the October Update, or does this thread exist for the purpose of complaining about issues that were discussed to death in other threads?
 
does this thread exist for the purpose of complaining about issues that were discussed to death in other threads?
This.

In other news, the October Developer Update video should drop in the next 30 minutes or so.
 
Argh

 
Greetings. What about Gaul makes them powerful and why?
Mostly just a really easy combat bonus to get. Archers with +6-12 combat in ancient and classical are devastating. Their UU can one shot kill spearmen and hold their own against all classical units especially if you build a mob of them. Ambiorix's early rush is just about on par with Sumeria and he keeps his combat bonus throughout the game.

Pericles surprise DoW'd me early when I played them on deity. It was no contest, I crushed him and ate his empire in the classical.

I wouldn't call him OP though. His other bonuses range from meh to worse than standard. Lacking normal adj bonuses is more of a handicap than it sounds like it should be. The mine thing mostly just seemed like an even trade.
 
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