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one reason why israel is so good at Propaganda

No they cannot young man! Usually your posts are quite entertaining which is why I took exception.

I have no problem if you feel so inclined to post that clip when you feel the need to. Hope it will jog my memory as to why it was necessary.

I am pretty sure those who do things out of habit would do so even had they not been educated.

My statement was not about education but about the "gullibility" of humans, (Americans specifically) to propaganda. It is not even that they are purposely "brainwashed" to be that way. The educational system is pretty free thinking and is great for those who can think for themselves. The problem may just be in that fact that even the best intent cannot force people to be who they do not want to be, and if people are provided with a means to have their life orchestrated for them, the current system will still work and the norm will be achieved.

Students are continuously queried as to figure out their wants and desires, their strengths and weaknesses. It is an efficient way to figure out how to achieve the maximum potential and to give meaning to one's life. I am not saying that is a bad thing. The problem is the ease in which an idea can be made to look favorable when it is not.
 
Hm yes then I suppose it is something like that. In general I am sure there is more intelligence to our minds then the one where we make the actual effort to weight cons and pros etcetera - when we - more or less - make use of textbook logic.
There is also an intelligence, a certain kind of logic, which just - snap - takes place without us really noticing what the reasoning is. And in my experience, that reasoning can still be pretty smart if reconstructed. I guess one can call that instinct. Just that not all instincts are just primitive reflexives. Some are complex reasoning-reflexives.
 
Hm yes then I suppose it is something like that. In general I am sure there is more intelligence to our minds then the one where we make the actual effort to weight cons and pros etcetera - when we - more or less - make use of textbook logic.
There is also an intelligence, a certain kind of logic, which just - snap - takes place without us really noticing what the reasoning is. And in my experience, that reasoning can still be pretty smart if reconstructed. I guess one can call that instinct. Just that not all instincts are just primitive reflexives. Some are complex reasoning-reflexives.

Complex reasoning reflexives come from forethought.

Example, anyone in my life who chooses to own a gun, I strongly advise them to do all the available gun safety courses and also learn to shoot it well...and then commit to spending at least some time every day running scenarios. I would shoot then, I wouldn't shoot then. But if this also was happening I would. And there I would not. A fairly substantial amount of time every day to start with, tapering off but never being abandoned.

Preparedness isn't 'being ready for anything', it is thinking regularly about the likely things.
 
The educational system is pretty free thinking and is great for those who can think for themselves.
The education system also teaches people to think for themselves... Would you not think this is going to alleviate this problem of gullibility than to contribute to it?
 
The education system also teaches people to think for themselves.

When did that start? As I recall the education system pretty much acts as a feedback loop. It tells the students 'facts' and when they reproduce them they are rewarded. At advanced levels to be rewarded they combine those facts in inventive ways. At no point is questioning of the agreed beliefs of the educational system rewarded.
 
When did that start? As I recall the education system pretty much acts as a feedback loop. It tells the students 'facts' and when they reproduce them they are rewarded. At advanced levels to be rewarded they combine those facts in inventive ways. At no point is questioning of the agreed beliefs of the educational system rewarded.

They start teaching that in university.
 
They start teaching that in university.

Not in any university I went to...and I dropped out of two before I managed to finish one so I have a sample size of three. It's been a while though, which is why I asked when this started.
 
No. You have to prove that the risk to civilians was not excessive compared to the military advantage gained from making the attack. As per the Geneva Conventions you have already been cited.

We all know what the military advantage is from attacking such a place. Virtually nil. Whereas the risk to civilians is roughly one dead per four attacks.
What you just stated goes against every military manual on the book when dealing with foreign civilians. Here's the link to Customary International Humanitarian Law, stuff that deals with how to deal with military targets inside of civilian populations, so you can read it for yourself to get acquainted with how international law is applied, since you are so suspect in your application is terrible and not up to recognised standards other nations use. http://www.icrc.org/eng/assets/files/other/customary-international-humanitarian-law-ii-icrc-eng.pdf
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/israel-is-not-violating-international.html#.U974n3gUNpg
The criticism most often given of Israel's actions is that it is violating the "principle of distinction." The Geneva Conventions Additional Protocol 1, article 52, states it this way:

1. Civilian objects shall not be the object of attack or of reprisals. Civilian objects are all objects which are not military objectives as defined in paragraph 2.

2. Attacks shall be limited strictly to military objectives. In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage.

3. In case of doubt whether an object which is normally dedicated to civilian purposes, such as a place of worship, a house or other dwelling or a school, is being used to make an effective contribution to military action, it shall be presumed not to be so used.

Many countries, when they ratified this article, clarified it to ensure that collateral damage is not covered by the first sentence of paragraph 2. So, for example, Canada wrote:

It is the understanding of the Government of Canada in relation to Article 52 that ...the first sentence of paragraph 2 of the Article is not intended to, nor does it,deal with the question of incidental or collateral damage resulting from an attack directed against a military objective.

Italy, Australia, the UK, France and New Zealand added similar language (CIHL II para. 83-91)

Logic dictates that it cannot be otherwise. If these caveats aren't in place, then anyone can make any military target immune from attack placing a civilian there, or placing the target in a house or church or hospital that is still used as such. So, for example, Australia's Defence Force Manual states:

The presence of noncombatants in or around a military objective does not change its nature as a military objective. Noncombatants in the vicinity of a military objective must share the danger to which the military objective is exposed.

Note that we are not saying that the existence of civilians at a military target can be ignored; that is part of the Proportionality discussion that will be forthcoming. But clearly international law allows the attack on military targets even if there are some civilians there.

Who determines whether something is a military target or not?

It is not reporters, or eyewitnesses, or residents of nearby houses, or human rights organizations. That decision is given to the military commander, based on the best available information at the time.

So, for example, The Military Manual of the Netherlands says that “the definition of ‘military objectives’ implies that it depends on the circumstances of the moment whether an object is a military objective. The definition leaves the necessary freedom of judgement to the commander on the spot."

Sweden's IHL manual states "it is up to the attacker to decide whether the nature, location, purpose or use of the property can admit of its being classified as a military objective and thus as a permissible object of attack. This formulation undeniably gives the military commander great latitude in deciding, but he must also take account of the unintentional damage that may occur. The proportionality rule must always enter into the assessment even though this is not directly stated in the text of Article 52." (para. 335, 338)

The military commander is not only concerned with the safety of the civilians in the area. The commander is also concerned with the safety of his or her own troops. The US Naval Handbook says "Military advantage may involve a variety of considerations, including the security of the attacking force." (para. 339)

Civilian sites can become valid military objectives. So, for example, Australia’s Defence Force Manual lists among military objectives “objects, normally dedicated to civilian purposes, but which are being used for military purposes, e.g. a school house or home which is being used temporarily as a battalion headquarters”. The manual specifies that "For this purpose, 'use' does not necessarily mean occupation. For example, if enemy soldiers use a school building as shelter from attack by direct fire, then they are clearly gaining a military advantage from the school. This means the school becomes a military objective and can be attacked." (para. 687)
As you can see by international law is doing its best to limit civilian deaths and your charges have no weight to them under international law.
Have you seen any pictures of the militants? Apparently they exist, but just have seen them in Gaza.
No one dared to ansewer this in spite of the belows pathetic attempt.
I think this is not really a sentence in English?

Furthermore, CH, what exactly is your reason for being so in favor of Neta-Israel? The many posters here who view this as a massacre of Palestinians cite the high number of dead people and the lack of any accomplishment by that, cause it will instead make even more people there hate Israel due to the latter murdering their families in this latest campaign.

But it is not as evident why you are in favor of the position you try to sketch out. Would it have to do with your god-ideas, by any chance?
It has to do with self defence. Israel has a right to defend against attack and in accordance with international law, attacking military objective can unfortunately bring about civilian deaths, but that is not the fault of the defender who fires upon the attacker who places their attack within civilian positions. If a nation is forced to go for no civilian deaths then it basically is giving license to the enemy for fire at will from within civilian positions, since it knows they will never be attacked. International law allows for self defence and portions the blame of civilians deaths n the attack whom is fighting within the civilian population, and in this case, it is Hamas.
Hm. Back on topic:

Israel's propaganda is so good, it keeps inspiring 'terrorist organizations'. If that is the goal of Israel's propaganda, they are doing a hell of a job.

More like the media handing out Hamas propaganda that is giving the terror organisations exactly what they want, the demonisation of Israel. Why do you think Hamas is fighting a war they are actively losing? They know that the "useful idiots" in the media will only show dead and injured children and not Hamas fighters fighting behind civilians and firing rockets from civilian positions. Right now the media is doing an excellent job of showing only what Hamas wants.
 
Not in any university I went to...and I dropped out of two before I managed to finish one so I have a sample size of three. It's been a while though, which is why I asked when this started.

I guess subject matters too. I did my degrees in science.
 
now the media is doing an excellent job of showing only what Hamas wants.
Some of the main American media are actually already quite favourable to the Israeli to the point that some outlets censored anti-Israeli views. It seems to me that the news media is only biased when it's not broadcasting what you want to hear. How typical.
 
The education system also teaches people to think for themselves... Would you not think this is going to alleviate this problem of gullibility than to contribute to it?

Just because the system teaches correctly in any area, does not mean the recipients will take advantage of the fact.

IMO the educations system in the US is focused on running a smooth corporate machine that entails all areas of life. I don't think that any one wants people to fall by the wayside and the more individuals do integrate and still add their own personality and thoughts, the more every one can enjoy the freedom to express themselves. I don't think that you can force people into this corporate machine either, so there also has to be the flexibility that the country will not be made into in one single mindset. Perhaps I have the wrong grasp on propaganda, but it's purpose seems to force a single mindset. So to me even the best of intentions in the education of the citizens will always be overcompensated to bring a single mindset to reality.

When did that start? As I recall the education system pretty much acts as a feedback loop. It tells the students 'facts' and when they reproduce them they are rewarded. At advanced levels to be rewarded they combine those facts in inventive ways. At no point is questioning of the agreed beliefs of the educational system rewarded.

I only have one out of three children who would fall into the category of a five year old who even understands the concept. All three of my children had an equal opportunity to develop with critical thinking skills and only one took advantage of it. I am not saying that the other two can't, but their strengths are in other areas. My oldest who is just starting high school is just now showing signs of such thought. My youngest has been allowed to be a grade ahead in Math for the last three years. So at least in my district students are allowed to develop their own abilities and gain knowledge in a critical manner. I suppose it matters where you are and how the district is run, and no, my district is no where near the "top" in my area.
 
I guess subject matters too. I did my degrees in science.

Would you consider the possibility that "we are teaching you to think for yourself" is one of the 'facts' they handed you and then rewarded you for consistently handing back?
 
Some of the main American media are actually already quite favourable to the Israeli to the point that some outlets censored anti-Israeli views. It seems to me that the news media is only biased when it's not broadcasting what you want to hear. How typical.

Indeed; the prime candidate for this is the 4-kids-on-a-beach story, where the NBC reporter was immediately recalled for 'security reasons' while they sent a replacement. Logic, amirite? :rolleyes:

Fortunately, there was enough of a stink on social media that the situation was rectified, but that almost never happens.
 
Would you consider the possibility that "we are teaching you to think for yourself" is one of the 'facts' they handed you and then rewarded you for consistently handing back?

I'm getting a master's in science atm. Yes, I think in addition to the textbook facts, you gain a very intuitive, although sort of informal, understanding of the scientific method and some logic and epistemology. Learning a real science lesson is essentially never just a laundry list of facts at this level, there's always a mathematical basis.
 
Actually, the reporter may well have been recalled for security reasons. The IDF is very aggressive about what footage gets out. Reporting news like that is liable to get you "killed by the terrorists".
 
Actually, the reporter may well have been recalled for security reasons. The IDF is very aggressive about what footage gets out. Reporting news like that is liable to get you "killed by the terrorists".

You think so? I thought the replacement guy was sent to the exact same place like a day later. Not to mention all the other reporters there that got to stay...
 
I'm getting a master's in science atm. Yes, I think in addition to the textbook facts, you gain a very intuitive, although sort of informal, understanding of the scientific method and some logic and epistemology. Learning a real science lesson is essentially never just a laundry list of facts at this level, there's always a mathematical basis.

How does a mathematical basis contribute to thinking for oneself? Math is the most concrete field of knowledge in existence. It has absolutely no room at all for opinion...a mathematical fact is indeed a fact, and that's pretty much that.
 
How does a mathematical basis contribute to thinking for oneself? Math is the most concrete field of knowledge in existence. It has absolutely no room at all for opinion...a mathematical fact is indeed a fact, and that's pretty much that.

Science has room for opinion.
 
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