one reason why israel is so good at Propaganda

[tetley]

Dang I can't think for myself because I was able to read this. Someone taught me how to read.

 

[onejayhawk]

Most people can't do that.

Will not, not cannot.

J

 

[timtofly]

Dang I can't think for myself because I was able to read this. Someone taught me how to read.

We need some uneducated Americans to start posting to prove some points around here. AFAIK every one born in the US is forced to get a basic education whether they want it or not, and by the time they decide they don't want it, it may be too late. It is very rare that they have any input in what they are taught until they have already gone through 10 years of education.

I never said Americans cannot think for themselves. My point was the problem is they rarely need to. And probably by the time they figure that out, it may be too late. Even when a child is taught to think critically does not necessarily mean that they will. There are other factors at play that can affect such ability. I will leave that vague so people who think for themselves can figure it out.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

The problem in the US is "the educated" cannot think for themselves. They only know what they have been taught and paid to do. Information is fed to them in school, in the media, and while they are given choices, the choices are artificial, not coming from some deep personal thought.

Are you "uneducated" then? Oh how wonderful. That must be the coolest thing to be these days. What a zen-like state of existence uncorrupted by knowledge.

But you know... Ironically, good schools in North America tend to focus on teaching students to think for themselves. If a student does not want to learn the right lessons, then that's his problem.

 

[hangman]

Are you "uneducated" then? Oh how wonderful. That must be the coolest thing to be these days. What a zen-like state of existence uncorrupted by knowledge.

This. This is why I hate living in the deep south.

 

[Agent327]

Hm. Back on topic:

Israel's propaganda is so good, it keeps inspiring 'terrorist organizations'. If that is the goal of Israel's propaganda, they are doing a hell of a job.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It seems that you must be relying on US "propaganda" to come up with that assumption.

You and hangman are basing your re-action on the point that uneducated people cannot think for themselves. Or at least one of you are basing post on that assumption. I never said educated people were stupid, which would be the point of such a reaction.

Perhaps spending a month or two traveling throughout this great country of opportunity would be the only basis for such a statement. But thanks for calling me an un-educated educated American. It helps prove my point even more.

Your claim that educated people cannot think for themselves was not supported by any kind of argument, hence you based it on absolutely nothing.

I never claimed uneducated people don't think for themselves, I posted a clip pointing out the lack of arguments, evidence, anything which would support your loony claim.

I never called you anything. I posted a clip pointing out the lack of arguments, evidence, anything which would support your loony claim.

The fact you thought my 3 second clip meant all those things you're talking about points out you do think for yourself, unhindered by truth, reality, honesty, common sense or logic

 

[hangman]

Israel's propaganda is so good, it keeps inspiring 'terrorist organizations'. If that is the goal of Israel's propaganda, they are doing a hell of a job.

That's true in some places, but here, many are totally unaware of the barbarity of the IDF. I read an article about American 'lone soldiers' who were so shocked by the cruelty therein that they subsequently became major Palestinian activists. I had no idea until a couple of days ago how segregated Israel is, and for Americans, the segregation era is very deep source of shame. I think if Americans simply knew that, nevermind the other stuff, popular opinion would tumble dramatically.

 

[timtofly]

Your claim that educated people cannot think for themselves was not supported by any kind of argument, hence you based it on absolutely nothing.

I never claimed uneducated people don't think for themselves, I posted a clip pointing out the lack of arguments, evidence, anything which would support your loony claim.

I never called you anything. I posted a clip pointing out the lack of arguments, evidence, anything which would support your loony claim.

The fact you thought my 3 second clip meant all those things you're talking about points out you do think for yourself, unhindered by truth, reality, honesty, common sense or logic

I was only trying to jump higher than your conclusion, and it seems I have failed in doing so. It seems that my experiences don't count here, seeing has how my point was not addressed, it was my experiences that were considered lies, not reality, dishonest, without any common sense, and illogical. I am sure that I have provided you with a lot of education that you can use to base those assumptions on. You pointed out with your little clip that I had nothing to base my statement on, and you accept that I can think for myself in my own little bubble, yet you somehow can overlook the fact that I may have actually experienced what I am talking about.


If folks here think that there is no problem with how Americans think, then I rest my case. I must be the only one who thinks otherwise.

 

[hangman]

yet you somehow can overlook the fact that I may have actually experienced what I am talking about.

The irony is that you can say this and simultaneously overlook our dismissals based on our own experiences, as if your life is somehow more valid than anyone else's.

Also, anecdotes =/= evidence.

If folks here think that there is no problem with how Americans think,

I'm going to interpret that as saying that I, and people who think like me, are not American despite having citizenship and living our entire lives here.

 

[timtofly]

If an American sees no problem, either there is no problem or there is and they do not see it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Tim, Tim, Tim. I do like you. But you realise your initial statement was rather silly and offensive don't you?

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

I was only trying to jump higher than your conclusion, and it seems I have failed in doing so. It seems that my experiences don't count here, seeing has how my point was not addressed, it was my experiences that were considered lies, not reality, dishonest, without any common sense, and illogical. I am sure that I have provided you with a lot of education that you can use to base those assumptions on. You pointed out with your little clip that I had nothing to base my statement on, and you accept that I can think for myself in my own little bubble, yet you somehow can overlook the fact that I may have actually experienced what I am talking about.

Can you describe concisely what it is that you may have actually experienced?

 

[timtofly]

Tim, Tim, Tim. I do like you. But you realise your initial statement was rather silly and offensive don't you?

It seems that the majority of my post can fit that description.

Can you describe concisely what it is that you may have actually experienced?

I did that in the post that started this whole back and forth. I am probably the only educated American who feels sometimes that everything is done out of habit. There is really no purpose and thought in life, and I feed off of all the entertainment that is being produced to keep me "civilized". I have seen this in others, and thought I was not alone.

I admit that may not fit all Americans, and I was a tad melodramatic.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It seems that the majority of my post can fit that description.

No they cannot young man! Usually your posts are quite entertaining which is why I took exception.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

I did that in the post that started this whole back and forth. I am probably the only educated American who feels sometimes that everything is done out of habit. There is really no purpose and thought in life, and I feed off of all the entertainment that is being produced to keep me "civilized". I have seen this in others, and thought I was not alone.

I admit that may not fit all Americans, and I was a tad melodramatic.

I am pretty sure those who do things out of habit would do so even had they not been educated.

 

[tetley]

I would say the first thing that needs to be done in order to think for ourselves is, don't be offended if someone says the educated can't think for themselves. I don't think it's true, but that is after doing some critical thinking to deem if there is merit to it.

At least when you get to postgraduate school, a lot of education is in fact teaching students how to think for themselves. In Liberal Arts, that's precisely what liberal thinking is: free thinking, free sharing of thoughts. Even in the math-centric studies, the point is to teach students the limits of what man knows, so that you can think beyond what's known to man already. We can't do that if we're spending all our time re-inventing the wheel.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I in a way - and even if only by accident - not thinking for yourself is a very smart (albeit cynical) move. Not everywhere. When it comes to things you individually actually can control and are happy to try to control - like your personal quest of earning money or having a good life etcetera - thinking for yourself can be pretty useful. And in that particular area of thought I think people do think for themselves in quit large quantities.
But when it comes to stuff one individually usually lacks the will to significantly (or at all) sacrifice for

What does thinking for yourself get you? Nothing. And if you lack self-awareness that you not thinking for yourself in those unprofitable areas - perfect. You do not even have to cynical.

And I have this idea that people somewher in their brains know this. So they don't bother with thinking for themselves.
Which would mean that the problem is not really that can not think for themselves. But that they can brilliantly deceive themselves to not to so if it only gives them headaches.

Of course the problem is that if everyone thought for themselves things could be a lot better for everyone. But well, such game theory issues are all over the place in our societies. They ain't going away because I don't want to play, so...

 

[hangman]

There actually IS a cognitive bias that timtofly was trying to get at, I think it's the "knowledge curse," but the delivery was... amusing

 

[hangman]

And I have this idea that people somewher in their brains know this. So they don't bother with thinking for themselves.
Which would mean that the problem is not really that can not think for themselves. But that they can brilliantly deceive themselves to not to so if it only gives them headaches.

You mean like decision prioritization?