OSG22 - Exemplary cats

sargon0 · Mar 9, 2008

Great moves RefSteel. Nothing like going to plan but well adapted and excellent progress, in tech as well despite funds needing to be used elsewhere!

Doom - fusion bomb tech next sounds good and cleaning up the silicoids on the way to Misha looks the way to go. Just be careful because rocks are still allied to scary Meks who have 10 huge on way! You could consider attacks on Darlok worlds which would impress machines but shifters do have Planetary Shield and one huge coming in, although no scary tech. And, yes, any ammo ship (missiles, bombs, bio's) must not return to planet it has retreated from per RB exploit list. Good luck.

RefSteel · Mar 9, 2008

I too support the Fusion Bomb Research Project, and (of course) continuing to hit the Silicoids where it hurts! (Uh ... where does it hurt a giant sentient rock, anyway?) And yeah, if our ships retreat from combat over an enemy or neutral world, none of the stacks that fired missiles or bombs (well, or spores) may return to the same star until they've gone elsewhere first (per the RB exploit rules). That's why our main battle fleet was sent to Laan instead of hanging out at Kailis in 2418. Note that they can "restock from assumed support ships" in mid-flight, so it's permissible to retreat from one enemy planet only to redirect to another enemy target. (Thus, I could have sent the fleet to attack Rana instead of just retreating to Laan, but decided to make sure of Kailis first.)

d0om · Mar 9, 2008

Hmm after my first turn the Darlocks allied with the Alkari. They want IIT7 to declare war on the Alkari.

Its a tough price to pay, but they lack any robotic controls, so they won't benefit much.

And if I don't do it, we will be at great risk of losing the vote.

sargon0 · Mar 9, 2008

Tough one. I would hesitate to give Darloks IIT7 since they do not have any IITx yey, although you are right they lack RCx to really benefit. Problem is the tech gift may not last; we gifted Alkari Range 7 but they still declared on us - they got Range 8 quickly so it was not a big loss but shows the gift may not buy loyalty. Meklar & Bulrathi were still at war with birds and I expect Meklar vote with ours would be a block. You could attack Darloks to keep Meklar onside but it is a tough call.

Go with your best judgement about how you can swing the vote and keep checking up to election - good luck.

RefSteel · Mar 9, 2008

To offer another perspective - given the timing, it sounds like a good move to me. IIT7 will be of limited use to the 'Shifters with most worlds in the galaxy developed (though you could argue their lack of RC makes it better for them than, say, the 'chines, as they'll benefit fully when/if they finally pull RC in), and what use it has may be to our benefit, as the 'Loks are the weakest of the three big AI powers in this galaxy (or more of an also-ran behind the two big ones.) As Sullla pointed out in my Meklar Challenge game, AI parity tends to be good for the player. In this case, we don't need the gift to last; we just need to ensure we don't lose the vote. If the Meks declare on us for the Silis, they may well vote for an AI with whom they're at war over a player with whom they're at war. With the Darloks' NAP in place to at least delay war with us, if they're at war with our opponent, we can pretty much sew up a stalemate at least. If they stay allied with Highsoar of course, we know they're voting Birdies.

d0om · Mar 9, 2008

So, good job I DID do that trade with the Darlocks, since now we are at war with everyone else!

I'll hurry up and finish my turns and stop posting now

RefSteel · Mar 9, 2008

Good luck, d0om!
This is certainly going to get interesting....

d0om · Mar 10, 2008

Some bad (good?) news. After the Meklar declared in that picture, my game crashed. When I reloaded the save they constantly refused to declare on me again, so we aren't at war with the Meklar after all.

Spoiler :

Summary: We capture Rana, loot terraforming+30, gain Radiated, Planetary Shields and Hard Beam techs. Transports en-route to capture Jinga.

Darlocks are now at war with the Alkari. Alkari have yet do do anything remotely offensive towards us though, other than destroy some bases and factories with spies.

Willow still has reserves pumped to it from last turn (I sent it twice by accident!)

Rana will have a missile base up this turn.

A lot of planets still need factories/shields built but have sent invasion transports so are currently breeding cats. This is mostly our southerly systems.

RefSteel · Mar 10, 2008

!! The crash is a real disappointment; I was looking forward to figuring a way to stop those massive Meklar battle fleets, and with time to wage the war on our own terms now, I think we've got the game pretty much in hand.

I live in dread of crashes - my poor machine is nearly a decade old - but I've found ways to keep Orion quite stable, even when running two graphics applications and a word processor at the same time for report purposes. Before starting an OSG turnset, I typically shut my computer all the way down and start it up again, and never run Firefox at the same time (I have to save and quit and restart the machine if I want to post or check the thread in mid-turnset) but like I said, I'm paranoid about crashes and am dealing with an ancient machine. Also of course, though I'm not perfect about it, I usually save constantly, often several times in the same turn! Anyway, here's hoping no more crashes ensue!

vmxa · Mar 10, 2008

Lurker:

I go way back to the early DOS and I just save at each turn during any SG and in long turns,, I may save again, just paranoid.

sargon0 · Mar 10, 2008

Yeah, the crash is a real shame, it would have been a big challenge. Bad luck on the timing, Doom, but well done with the situation left which is improving nicely. I cannot play tonight, probably tomorrow night.

RefSteel · Mar 10, 2008

I just noticed I spent so much time babbling about my crash paranoia that I forgot to say: Great turns, d0om! Good catch on Crypto breeding while Iranha teched next door; I missed that one, obviously. And another good catch on the Alkari spying; I forgot to switch to Espionage on them from Hide when they declared war. I also notice our LR Cheetahs are heading for the unscouted blue star in the south. I remember noticing it in my turnset, wondering what was there, not wanting to send a warp 1 ship to find out, and then forgetting about it. It's probably asteroids, but you never can tell. And I enjoyed your report as well!

[EDIT: On the Cheetahs, not a big deal, and one of us should have mentioned this when we saw the Wolverines, but RB OSG naming convention is to call ships something that indicates their armament or purpose, followed by their warp speed (either alone as in CatsEye 4 or with a version number appended as in Scat 4.0). This makes it easier for future emperors to tell what ships are on hand at a glance. In general, the more information you can give "at a glance" the better for an OSG, thus something like "x5 Scat 4" and "x2 Scat 4" might have been better than "Scat 4.0" and "Scat 4.1" - in fact, in OSG 21, Sargon included the number of NPGs in the name of his Neutron Pellet Gun Cruiser!]

I just looked at the save, and things are definitely looking good. We're not yet in a can't-lose Winning Position, but we're getting close. Just a few things for Sargon to be aware of in case they're not obvious, mostly falling under the heading of, "use F8, but don't rely on it entirely":

-The Darloks have a major fleet bound for Jinga - two Huge King Cobras and eight Large (Black Widows, I think) - currently just south of Whynil. They will arrive the turn after our transports hit the world! (Three turns from now) They obviously just departed, so d0om couldn't have known about it when the transports were sent.

-There's an Alkari SoD about to hit the Meklar world of Nyarl (the one that gives us contact with the 'chines, though Jinga would give us contact too if Rana doesn't already). I don't know if it'll crack the bases, especially if the stack of Meklar larges sitting there (if I remember correctly) stick around, but it's something to be aware of.

-The birds also have a fairly significant fleet at their planet in the north (Tao? The one closest to Mrrshan space). I have a feeling, especially if they win the battle at Nyarl, this edition of the Alkari war may soon become non-phony.

-The Darloks have some kind of fleet (just the known large designs, which aren't really impressive) at Tau Cygni - and breaking a NAP, as they recently did, is usually a signal that attack is imminent. That fleet doesn't scare me much, but I'd still be building missile bases at Crypto at full speed. (It only has one so far). I'd also want more missile bases on our northwest worlds, especially at Neptunus, Rhilus, and Paranar.

All that said, we're going to win this, barring some spectacularly bad luck and/or decision making. We've come a long, long way since the Silicoids took Firma! Great job again on this stage of our trek toward victory, d0om!

d0om · Mar 11, 2008

Yes, I was wondering why we weren't spying on the Alkari, I often accidentally click hide when trying to talk to races sometimes so I get paranoid about checking the buttons.

I like the default names for the Mrrshan too much to change them

I'll try to remember next time I design a ship. I think I sent a Catseye to the Alkari fleet in the north, but it missed it once and had to retreat from the bases so it might need sending there again.

I hadn't seen the Darlock fleet inbound to Jinga, good catch. Hopefully our scatter packs can make a serious dent in it, alternating busting bases at Cryslon with destroying the Darlock fleet at Jinga.

I was going to make a huge design and get willow mass-producing them but I thought I should wait for fusion bombs.

Crypto might still be building a shield? Or maybe it finished it shield and I forgot to reset def spending for more bases. I always like to trickle some def spending everywhere to avoid having un-upgraded bases.

We might want to think about invading Nyarl next, if the Alkari take it or not. If the meklar hold onto it its a good prize for us, should give us some Robotic control tech, and if the birds take it then it'll be their least defended world!

RefSteel · Mar 11, 2008

d0om said:
I like the default names for the Mrrshan too much to change them

I can understand that! The most important thing to include is warp speed, so if you're only going to make one change to the default name, make it e.g. "Cheetah 4".

I think I sent a Catseye to the Alkari fleet in the north

Yup, I believe it's due to arrive next turn.

Crypto might still be building a shield? Or maybe it finished it shield and I forgot to reset def spending for more bases.

Yeah, it wasn't neglecting bases entirely, and either had or was about to have a shield. As I recall, it was spending ~50% of its budget on defense while also doing research. My comment was just that I'd have it go all out on defense at this point.

We might want to think about invading Nyarl next, if the Alkari take it or not.

Well, unless the birds forgot to bring ships that can crack its shielding! They might not even soften it up for us! Even so, you may be right, at least once we have F-Bombs. I'd want to take Cryslon and Misha first though unless the upcoming battle leaves Nyarl practically defenseless (and maybe even if it does). Of course, that might be what you meant by "next" anyway!

sargon0 · Mar 12, 2008

Not able to get to this yesterday, still catching up after being away. Not a lot to report on my turns but our domination is becoming overwhelming as GNN delivers 18 planet warning.

Took Jinga as set up by Doom, eyed Alkari northern fleet (below). Followed the RefSteel/Doom plan of securing North while taking Cryslon with missile boats swinging between Jinga and Cryslon. Darlok fleet below despatched with help of new WD medium (custom design

). Reserve pumped Jinga for shield and base while awaiting transports for Cryslon then pumped shield and base there - no serious opposition.

On tech front picked up Hydrogen Fuel Cells, Inertial Stabilizer, Sub-Light & Zortium from Jinga. Only discovery was Fusion Bomb which arrived very slowly. New Construction option was Armoured Exoskeleton or IIT5, new Weapons option was only Fusion Rifle. However Battle Computer 5, Deflector Shield 5 & Range 9 are in percentages and Atmosphric Terraforming is about there.

We had Industrial Accident at Mu Delphi - no big problem. Meklar have captured Endoria from Alkari. Alkari have Fusion Beam but are at war with everyone. Misha is ready for taking, a new fleet would look nice or we could sit back and collect some new toys. Have fun (luck will not be needed!).

View attachment 171266 View attachment 171267

Savegame: View attachment 171265

RefSteel · Mar 13, 2008

Well played, Sargon! I'll look at the save in a moment, to make sure I have the right one, but it sounds like we've officially reached a Winning Position!

[EDIT: Yup. We've invoked the Sullla Tautology: A player (or, in this case, a team) capable of achieving a Total Power lead on Impossible will always win any game in which such a lead is achieved. And, yeah, I've got the save, and have played around with the inherited turn a bit, and everything looks great. I can probably play tomorrow morning (afternoon in England of course), but will have to see.]

Just looking at that Alkari fleet ... uh ... no wonder their wars have been phony! Those bird ships couldn't crack their own eggs, never mind the nine shield layers at our bases! I guess they could go after Paranar and try to deal with our clouds of Scat bases there. Yeah, good luck with that, HighSoar.

I also love the WD Medium design (even though I haven't looked at the save to see it yet!) - that's exactly the kind of thing I was considering before the joys of Windows "stability" canceled our nascent war with the Meklar.

I just have one question before I start my turns: There's an election coming up at the very end of my turnset, soooo ... if we have a chance to win, do I take it?

(My vote is yes, since we can obviously achieve whatever victory conditon we feel like at this point; it would just be a matter of time. But if the rest of the team wants to kick the AI races around some more as payback for all the time we had to spend walking on diplomatic eggshells and fending off their probe fleets, just say so!)

d0om · Mar 13, 2008

You can always win the vote, then click Continue afterwards to get back into the game if you would prefer to kill some Alkari (We haven't actually killed a single Alkari ship/colonist yet?)

We might want to rectify that before taking the win, even if its just a token attack

WD medium supporting scatter pack launching ships is always a good plan, although my personal favourite is a Torpedo large with a Repulsor beam, destroys most ships with ease

RefSteel · Mar 13, 2008

Yeah - I'll save the game in 2449 and post it for anyone who wants to either use our veto power to prevent our own election or go for a Final War. As for my turnset, I haven't started yet, but having looked at the save, I could probably just hit Next Turn a few times, maybe do a little electioneering just to be sure, hit Next Turn a few times more, and walk away wth a victory. But that wouldn't fulfill my #1 goal!

My priorities for this turn set:
1. Have fun.
2. Keep a certain promise.
3. Win the game.

Shouldn't be hard to hit 'em all this time!

sargon0 · Mar 13, 2008

Yeah, RefSteel, take the win if offered would be my view but post the save before vote for any to have fun. Note I did not setup the 2440 turn at all so you may want to fiddle some sliders but no harm will come from a few next turns anyway.

It is a shame we did not get to use our superior cat-fighting to teach the birds a lesson or scramble against the mighty machines fleet - you may want to punish the birds a bit to impress others for the vote. However Shandra (from OSG21) will have seen how a healthy position for the cats is turned into an easy win by swatting the nearest unfortunate victim (poor rocks) and staying alert.

It's a little odd how dominant we have become without Robotic Controls III/IV which are almost absent from the game, being restricted to the small but dangerous machines.

Finish with style (or just report it well :lol:

).

RefSteel · Mar 13, 2008

I played up to 2448 but was unexpectedly called in to work, so I'll finish the turns tonight. Sneak preview: The rest of the team might get a chance to play again after all! I set a couple of extra goals for myself to keep things challenging, and they might preclude the diplo necessary to pull in a win - maybe. I already know I'll miss one of my goals - Range 9 is being extremely stubborn, and still hasn't come in, so I won't be able to glass Altair before the vote. That might be reason enough to continue the game right there! I'll post the full report with a 2449 or 2450 save (depending on the vote outcome) some time in the late evening (GMT-7, I think, due to Daylight Savings Time here in the States).

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