OSG22 - Exemplary cats

[RefSteel]

I agree that we aren't ready for action yet, but I'm concerned that action may be coming to us, ready or not. My thinking is:
-If the 'Coid fleet heads into Mrrshan space from Kailis, we'll need a fleet to protect our planets (and/or "our" planets like Crypto, depending on their range) anyway, and probably may as well go to war, depending on the diplo situation. Rather than pop-storming the planet, I might send a fleet to try and glass it if I thought I could get enough force there to do so before reinforcements and/or the inevitable transports arrived. (Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much force is necessary for orbital bombardment to become a possibility.) This would destroy their incoming 'sports without costing any kitty lives (and would hurt our growth curve no more than building a defensive fleet of the same size).
-If the 'Coid fleet returns to Cryslon or something ... you might want to do this anyway! I would definitely wait until the last minute though (e.g. glass it just a turn or two before their transports arrive if taking that option), to improve our production base.
-If the 'Coid fleet continues to just sit on Kailis, I suppose you'll have to be ready for all contingencies, but I definitely wouldn't send transports without knowing if they'll be shot down when they arrive!

Take my suggestions with a grain of salt though; after all, it was my failure to rush Barren faster than I did - combined, admittedly, with stubborn pRNG - that got us into this mess in the first place!

 

[RefSteel]

-If the 'Coid fleet returns to Cryslon or something ... you might want to do this anyway!

On second thought, I think this would be foolish. If they're not sending fleets to our worlds (which would mean we're in cold war anyway) or to e.g. Crypto (and then if there's a colship with them, it has to be killed, not just cut off) then we don't need to build a fleet yet, have better things to do with our population than kill 'Coids, and should just work on our economy. We can take Kailis later, when we're ready, and they've built some facs for us.

 

[d0om]

The presence of a huge silicoid ship made me back down any plans for an immediate assualt!

They have made extensive gains, however. Nearly finished then I'll post.

 

[d0om]

Well, we have gained quite a lot of systems and are comfortably in the lead for systems. The silicoids have made some gains into our territory though, and we might have to fight them off. The huge is slightly worrying in that it is traveling with a colship in its fleet. This means if we bomb out a colony it is en-route for it will just rebuild it on arrival and not be destroyed (I think). The alkaris have declared war, but nothing has come of it so far.

Spoiler :

2350: I survey my domain and notice that Paranar and Xendalla are available for colonyships. Barren tech isn't popping so might as well grab these two worlds as soon as possible.

Dial up the meklars and ask them to break their alliance with the bird people, but they refuse. They have Deep Space Scanner and want Imp.Eco. Might be a usefull trade there later if they still lack Eco when they get robotic controls. The darlocks and silicoids aren't interested in our technology (presumably as they plan to steal it later.)

I start research from Fierias on II9, injection this turn then will trickle a bit while sending out colships.

We chase away a darlock scout at Reticuli, its a 85 terran with 4 pop. Its range 7. I am sorely tempted to send in the group troops. Our colonies are all vastly underpopulated though, so its not the right time. Perhaps later. Barren still hasn't popped.

2351: Contact has been broken with Meklar empire!

2352:Alkaris have settled Tao to the north (red star NE of reticuli)they have 2 foxbats so I can't scout it, but pop is only 2. Settling Thilus should being it into range.

Barren still not popped.


2353:factory building is getting properly underway now settlers have arrived, colony ship ready next turn. I re-design it to have a laser in case the alkari send fighters to the east.

Explore Klystron (dead35) Get chased away from the green star south of Klystron by a darlock ship, after first chasing away an alkari scout above its colony there! Have the alkaris got the entire western third?

Settle Mu Delphi, send col ships to Rhilus and Paranar.

Barren still not popped.

2354:chase bulrathi scout from kylstrom.

Barren still not popped.

2355:darlocks chase away a scout with 5 mediums at Tauri

Barren still not popped, IIT9 in %s

2356:Scout Taur, 110 max fertile! That would be a nice world to have.

2357:Silicoids have a large shark and 2 col ships inbound to Kailis (barren). Not much I can do to stop them starting a colony there now, but should be simple enough to take it off their hands once barren pops.

Silicoid advance with both colships and shark, so their colships are armed now (with missiles)

Barren pops! Dead will let us get a few more worlds, but +20 is cheaper and will have a greater effect. + we really want inferno for the ultra rich! +10 is much much cheaper though, and will pay for itself before +20 hits, and with the extra tech level so I pick it first.

2358:I decide to settle the two remaining barren worlds before Firma(the 15max runt) so design a new barren colony ship and start production.

19 alkari foxbats chase away our scout at Rhilus. This demands action.

2359:Nothing from fieres will get to Rhilus for 11 years, by which time anything could have happned. The armed colship heading for Paranar will redirect to Rhilus and the Rhilus one will build at Paranar. 1 laser isn't going to do much against 19 foxbats though, but might be usefull if some of them leave. Iranha and Neptunus start building fighters to kill the pesky alkari so we can build our colony.

2362:Barren colony ship dispatched to Darrian. Research picking up with IIT9 on 16% and hand lasers at 8%.

Silicoids Kraken picked up on scanners, a huge. Might need to start getting some bases built.

Silicoids settle Tau Cyni, chasing away our scout with their large.

Settle Paranar and Xendella. Contact with the Alkari and our first vote! Alkari and Darlocks vote together, rest abstain. No-one votes for us, I abstain.

2363: Start a 25 BC trade with Alkari, in an atempt to forstall the inevitable! They have Hyper-V rockets and hand lasers, want Range7 or imp.eco. I didn't do a deal with them, but the rockets might be usefull later. Darloks are allied to the Alkaris still, but its just the two of them at the moment.

Alkari have 7 falcons at Tao now, new design.

IIT9 pops! IT+10 pops!

Only available construction tech is IIT8. Start +20 terraforming.

2364:My fighters have regained orbital contro lof Rhilus, and without a fight too. Alkari must have sent their fighers elsewhere, or scrapped them as they have the new design? Col ship will be there in 2.

Silicoids send a colship and escort to the large dead near us. Their huge is lurking just to the south so I won't try rush building ships and taking it down. Don't want to provoke them too much. We can't settle the dead for a while anyway, and it will be just as easy to take if off them with factories and tech later.

Hand lasers pop! Hyper-X or Fusion bomb. I pick Hyper-X since we will want some defences before we go attacking. We can pick up fusion bomb when we want.

Alkari declare war, we were up to wary relations too!.

2365:Call everyone up and ask them to join in agains the Alkari. And by everyon I mean the darlocks as the silicoids don't have contact. They DO have gatling lasers though. I didn't want to give them range7 for them though. Darlocks don't want to go to war with the Alkari, and are still allied to them. If they join in the Silicoids might join in on our side. I put 1 tick on spying on the alkari (Didn't seem to cost anythign checking planetary production.)

Darlok colony ship arived at Rhilus! Runs away when it sees our fighters, and our colony ship lands. Silicoids Settle Crypto.

2366:Worried about Willow, our UR inferno in the north. Its now 5 parsecs from the silicoids and a likley target for their expansion. I send all our fighters there to protect it. I haven't settled Firma yet as its 15 pop max. Darlocks aren't allied to the Alkari anymore, thats something good. Alkari are allied to Meklar now though. Thats not so good.

Paranar rebells! 1 million rebels control the planet. Transports are allready on route, of course.

2367:We are back in contact with meklar, Nyarl has been retaken. Meklar refuse any trade or to attack the Alkaris.

Imperial troops recapture Paranar, with 1 loss.

2368: Silicoid fleet is heading to Firma. If we take Firma, Tau Cygni and Kailis in one fell swoop that would be very effective. If we bomb out Crypto at the same time it would disband their huge ship.

2369arrian is founded.

 

[RefSteel]

Wow ... I said there'd be rocky ground ahead, but I wasn't expecting the 'Coids to prove it so aggressively (and literally)! If only Shandra had expanded like that in our last game! Good job hanging on to what you could, d0om, though the Rocks' worlds in our core are definitely going to need attention.
(And our point worlds with the birds are in the nebula, and brand new. Ouch. At least their cheese alliances are in abeyance for the time being....)
[EDIT: I believe I was mistaken here. When I chased the 'Lok scout from Rhilus in my final interturn, the background stars were blue. Thus, Rhilus, our Terran planet in the far north is not in the nebula - it just looks like it is!]

 

[Sullla]

Well, well. Letting the Silicoids get their hands on that Barren planet has opened up all the hostile planets in the north to their ships. Looks like you guys have a game on your hands now.

Good luck!

 

[RefSteel]

Thanks for dropping by, Sullla! I'm ... uh ... glad we've managed to make the game interesting!

 

[sargon0]

Tough turns Doom with Silcoids pinching our planned barrens (good to keep big Darrian), Alkaris encroaching then declaring and not forgetting ... a huge rebellion event!

Dathon said he could not play till next week so I am up now although I don't mind waiting if Dathon can advise of an early play. I cannot play today anyway but probably tommorow. I will post again before I start my turns to allow Dathon to grab if he finds time. If Dathon is skipped I will play 10 turns and we will continue rotation but allow him to pick up any turn when he becomes available.

So far not so exemplary play (I skipped Barren first ) but while teaching Big Brother's Shandra a lesson I'm sure we wanted a challenge too!

 

[d0om]

The 'coids will take a long time to get any pop up to their new colonies in the north, so I think some form of simultaneous landing at all their new acquisitions (bombing the dead one out) in an attempt to disband their huge and take 3-4 colonies might be a good move.

Strange the Alkari poached one of our best worlds, declared then sent their fleet away just as my brave fighters turned up. Perhaps they saw them coming and ran away scared

 

[RefSteel]

...but while teaching Big Brother's Shandra a lesson I'm sure we wanted a challenge too!

Hey, if we didn't want a challenge, we wouldn't be playing Impossible Cats! (What's the equivalent of having a friendly Psilon neighbor who wants to guard your planets for you and give you all his tech? Average? Easy? Simple? Worse?) If we had the entire northeast uncontested, it would have been a disappointment. As Sullla says, we have a game on our hands now! Let's do this thing! Rrrrrrowr!!!

(Heh. Easy for me to say, since I probably won't have to take a turn at dealing with our "rocky ground" for a couple more turnsets yet....)

@d0om: With the Huge escorting a colship, and with other Sili fleets flying around to potentially interdict fleets or 'sports, the plan you outlined would require some incredible timing/luck (or lots of military ships). That would be quite the daring move though! Here's to our fellow emperors seizing every opportunity that comes up!

 

[sargon0]

Okay, Dathon is skipped as suggested, and I will play now. Will post update when complete.

 

[sargon0]

Well I decide it is too early for military action with our numerous but under-developed colonies. I can fend a Silicoid large from ‘our’ inferno UR with Doom’s defence force (22 laser popguns) but not the huge so if it comes calling I will let the Silicoids borrow our planet. The Alkari war looks phoney for now, just need to keep an eye out for any possible incursions. Since I am planning no direct action I turn off spying. I will concentrate on building up the economy aiming to max Fieirias & Paladia quickly and pump reserves into developing & border colonies especially Artifacts Neptunus which I want online ASAP. While doing this I will try to continue tech at a reasonable pace and maybe even build some defences. I will use poor Laan to help tech initially (with some from max’ing planets) until more available then put back to factories.

I notice some planets are partially terraformed which can be wasteful if not counted carefully so I immediately complete terraforming on Mu Delphi & Laan. Later on I terraform Paranar & Xendalla leaving only Rhilus & Darrian to do. Darrian had just been founded so I send seed pop from Iranha & Xendalla. I send pop from nearby to speed max’ing of Fierias & Paladia. I pump artifacts planet so it can max, build defences and become productive quickly. I also pump some reserves to new Rhilus which is border world with Alkari.

On the tech front we discover Deep Space Scanner and choose ECM2 over BC3, since we are cats and, missing RC3, we want to advance quickly. Discover Deflector Shields 2 and progress to Deflector Shields 3 then late on discover Nuclear Engines and (due to artifacts range 7) we jump straight to Fusion Engines over Energy Pulsar or Warp Dissipator or older. HyperX Missiles are in low percentages with IT+20 & IIT8 well advanced.

Only diplomatic issue was the vote after 2374 with Alkari(5), Darlok(4) & Meklar(3) voting bird and us(5), Silicoids(4) & Bulrathi(1) abstaining. The Darlok & Meklar are allied with the enemy. The only change to the map since 2370 is the Silicoids finding minimal 15 Firma. Their dangerous fleet headed from Crypto to Firma and are currently heading back to Crypto never having approached ‘our’ UR planet.

Current situation is we have 4 planets maxed and 4 with 1 missile base plus Phyco can produce 1 MB this turn. Artifacts world should guarantee a fair tech pace but note the Alkari tech bar is currently twice ours! We are now in a reasonable position to consider military action (or maybe just build-up or gathering needed tech) although we need to consider who we will have left as friends if we do start attacking. Good luck.

Roster:
Sargon – just played
RefSteel – UP NOW
Doom – on deck
Dathon – skipped

Savegame: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/117018/osg22_2380_SAVE.GAM.zip

 

[RefSteel]

Okay, I've got it, but: I probably won't be able to play it for at least a day, and maybe not until sometime on Tuesday. Also, it's about to be the "next week" of the first posts in this thread, and dathon hasn't gotten a chance to play yet, so I suggest the following roster change:

sargon0 --> Just Played
dathon78 --> UP NOW if desired; otherwise moves down the list below RefSteel and/or d0om
RefSteel --> On Deck unless I can start playing before dathon's next post
d0om

Does this sound right to everyone? If so, I'll post again just before I start the turnset if dathon hasn't taken it by then.

Finally: A question on our tech situation. I looked at the save, and it looks like we're emphasizing propulsion research. I would probably have given this low priority for the present, but I can think of two good reasons why I might be wrong:
1. We might be applying an initial investment to speed our eventual completion of this expensive technology. (If so, Sargon, do you remember when it came in? In other words, is it too soon to reduce our spending on it now?) Or...
2. I could just be wrong about its present importance. I am pretty new to this game.
Thoughts?

 

[sargon0]

The Roster change is fine, hopefully Dathon can play, but do not leave it too long or were you just trying to avoid following my turns?

The tech priorities are completing IT+20 & IIT8 (as well as finishing hyper-X) and hoping for Inferno. We do not have the economy for a 12k tech like fusion drives at the moment but missing sub-light engines has made fusion a greater priority. As you expected, the current tech settings are just for an initial investment – I discovered nuclear engines in 2379 and have already invested about 100 BC in fusion but thought another boost then trickle would be a good idea. I still expect fusion to take well over 20 turns and it is hard to predict our priorities that far – we could be sitting back advancing tech or embroiled in some heavy action. At the level of tech investment I left in the save I thought we could afford a down-payment but I did not plan the next moves; if I reduced tech spending this turn I would reduce propulsion in favour of other fields and would reduce it significantly next turn anyway.

Of course, I am comfortable however you or Dathon decide to play it.

 

[dathon78]

I've got it, and will play today.

dathon

 

[dathon78]

Erm, no I don't have it; the archive seems to be corrupt. Tried downloading it twice, same thing. sargon, can you re-post please?

Well, as Sullla said, we definitely have an interesting game on our hands. I'm going to reserve most of my commentary until after I've seen the game, but there is one thing that I can say now: we expanded WAY too slowly!! On Impossible, the name of the game is territory grab. The AI will rabidly gobble up stars, and the only way to have a shot is to grab as many as you can at the outset. It's better to over-stretch and lose a few then under-stretch and be shut out. Given the AI bonuses, early aggression to claim planets that player did not get to first is usually not a viable option. I don't think it is here as well; yes the Silicoids are low on pop now, but we have no military, no defenses, and are probably behind on tech.

If you want a fair share of territory on Impossible, EVERYTHING early on must be bent towards expansion, including research. Barren should have been the first tech researched, given that there are two worlds near our core. When it was discovered that the rocks were near, those should have been the priority, right behind the size 85 Jungle to the North. I did not emphasize that enough in my last post, and that's my fault. I was rushed while writing it, so it came out stream-of-conscience.

But all is not lost. We do have a fairly sizable chunk of territory, so let's see if we can leverage that into a win!

dathon

 

[sargon0]

Odd because RefSteel has looked at save? It seems CFC may be experiencing problems with their file server because it will not list my files and says easy upload is disabled right now. I am on the move today anyway so could not repost till about 22:00 GMT anyway. Hope it clears sooner.

 

[RefSteel]

@sargon0: I suggested the roster change because I'm working until 9PM(!) tonight (yeah, my schedule is a little loony) and I knew I probably wouldn't have a chance to play my turns before tomorrow. If dathon couldn't get to it I'd of course have still played as soon as I had a chance. I mostly agree with the tech priorities you described.

@dathon78: Good analysis; thanks. As for the save, I was able to download and open it over the weekend, but it looks like the CivFanatics upload/download system is out of order right now. If it continues to be so, I could send you the save if you PM me with your e-mail address or something.
EDIT: Per Sullla's suggestion below, let's give this a try:

 

[Sullla]

If you'd like, I can also host save files on my website for your group to download. However, the easiest solution is actually to use the "attach file" feature of this website, which has been unaffected by the recent server problems. Hopefully you can work around the tech issues that way.

Oh, and ECM2 over Battle Computers III? Hmmm. Wouldn't it be better to have level 7 computers than level 5 ones?

 

[sargon0]

Thanks Sulla & RefSteel - works fine.

Well, ECM2 over BC3 - seemed a good idea at the time (although I don't recall ever making that choice before). Maybe I was just over-compensating for earlier tech indulgences. Could be a crowd waiting to congratulate me over that one!