OT Changes Q&A

[Birdjaguar]

This will be a short term discussion thread for Q&A about this new policy:

You may be aware that we have had a scheme known as "The Road to Permbanhood" (TRPBH) for a small group of OT posters (less than 20), which was a series of escalating ban lengths that ultimately led - if the poster did not improve his or her behaviour - to a permban. We have decided to do away with this approach, and those who survived TRPBH have been released from that programme. Some, though not all, of those released were returned to normal status as a reward for their efforts at good behaviour. A very select group of posters have been notified that they still under careful watch.

This small group will receive non-expiring points for posts that are particularly detrimental to the forums - in other words, flaming and trolling and associated behaviour. Bans at the eight- and fifteen-point thresholds will still occur as per normal, but twenty-one non-expiring infraction points will earn a permanent ban. The decision to place a member in this group is not one which has been taken lightly, and it has been made only after a careful consideration of the individual's contribution (or lack of) to the site, in some cases stretching over several years. They are those who long experience has shown to have posting styles which moderators have found detrimental to the forum. The purpose of this new system is to encourage them to change now and to do so permanently, or to be removed from the forum altogether. This change is not a rash move borne out of impatience or frustration, but a carefully considered policy specifically designed to improve the forum for those posting in it, and posting within the rules. If you have not received a PM telling you that this policy now applies to you, you don't have to worry about it. That doesn't mean in the future that you can't be added to it, but for now it doesn't apply to you.

Notices have been sent out to most of those affected. The remaining notices should be out by this time tomorrow. Do not ask if this applies to you.

If what has been posted above is still not clear, you may ask question in this thread.

 

[GhostWriter16]

How was the decision made to determine who would be on the list? Why is this program better than the RTPB?

 

[useless]

It's.. really not much of a difference.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The decision was made mostly on infraction history. We started with the then current Road list, set some of those free and then added a few who had been candidates for the Road. The current list numbers less than 12.

This program is better because it shortens what had become a very long and indecisive process. It is pretty much a "change or die" situation.

 

[GhostWriter16]

That's kinda sorta my point, it seems like the change was to give posters who have been acting "Better" recently a way out, but then... why not just tell posters with recent good behavior that they are now exempted from the RTPB?

It doesn't really concern me unless I get a PM (Which given my recent infraction history I find unlikely) but I am curious.

@BJ- How "Historical" is the thing? Do infractions long ago play a big factor or mainly recent stuff?

 

[useless]

Again, it doesn't seem to be much of a step up. People will only post in different ways, but only to avoid the (unfair) permapoints.

 

[Godwynn]

Will there be any changes to the dispute process for perma-points?

The current "just ignore the infracted poster's pm" will not be sufficient for something this serious.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Again, it doesn't seem to be much of a step up. People will only post in different ways, but only to avoid the (unfair) permapoints.

Honestly, I don't see much issue with that fact. I freely admit sometimes I refrain from insulting someone who's being stupid solely because I'd rather not take the infraction points.

CFC isn't God, where total and complete surrender can be demanded. Its more like a nation. The laws are there and punishments exist as deterrence. That's kinda the point.

Now, the penalties being unfair is a whole new issue, and a far more interesting one. Truth be told, I have plenty of beefs with the unclear rulebook. I won't get into them for fear of getting into PDMA. But I do acknowledge sometimes the infractions are unfair. Nothing we can really do about that, except convince the mods to change the way they infract, which on some occasions may or may not be worth the effort.

But not ALL PB points are unfair.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Again, it doesn't seem to be much of a step up. People will only post in different ways, but only to avoid the (unfair) permapoints.

From the moderator standpoint it is a significant change when dealing with this very select group. The Road process was not very effective in changing behavior and we had too many lengthy discussions about those closing in on the end. this process is far more automatic.

For those on the list, it will provide a pretty exact accounting of where one stands in relation to a final permaban. If you get seven 3 point infractions, you are gone.

 

[Maniacal]

Dunno whom any of these people are, or this program, but I'm still waiting for the mods to do, well, anything (EDIT: noticeable and/or mentioned if asked if they are doing anything about them), about some problem users. I also don't think they are really going to change their behaviour just because of a few warnings on a forum, its something that would likely require a life-changing experience or just growing up/wiser as they go through life.

 

[Godwynn]

For those on the new road, will all infractions for trolling and flaming be perma-points or will some be temporary?

How will the line be drawn in the sand?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Will there be any changes to the dispute process for perma-points?

The current "just ignore the infracted poster's pm" will not be sufficient for something this serious.

I expect the review process will be the same.

 

[NickyJ]

This isn't directly a question about the system, but: How long has the Road existed?

Dunno whom any of these people are, or this program, but I'm still waiting for the mods to do, well, anything, about some problem users. I also don't think they are really going to change their behaviour just because of a few warnings on a forum, its something that would likely require a life-changing experience or just growing up/wiser as they go through life.

Well, if I were on the list, I would put in extra work to make sure I'm not permabanned.

 

[useless]

From the moderator standpoint it is a significant change when dealing with this very select group. The Road process was not very effective in changing behavior and we had too many lengthy discussions about those closing in on the end. this process is far more automatic.

For those on the list, it will provide a pretty exact accounting of where one stands in relation to a final permaban. If you get seven 3 point infractions, you are gone.

The reality is, that there are certain mods that infract HEAVILY on certain people.

Can you see what I am getting at with that line?

You might as well Permaban us now, because with that amount of lee-way, we're doomed from the start.

This really sucks, there are posters here that contribute alot, be they conservative or liberal, and with this stance you've taken, they'll be gone, and for what?

A light hearted comment?

Accidental spam?

Comment not good enough?

Will you even look at the context of the infractions?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Dunno whom any of these people are, or this program, but I'm still waiting for the mods to do, well, anything, about some problem users. I also don't think they are really going to change their behaviour just because of a few warnings on a forum, its something that would likely require a life-changing experience or just growing up/wiser as they go through life.

Well we hope this will help with that very problem.

For those on the new road, will all infractions for trolling and flaming be perma-points or will some be temporary?

How will the line be drawn in the sand?

All of the posters on the list have long histories of repeated posting problems. I expect that there will be little leeway.

There are some on the lost who have made changes in the last few months and that is meaningful from our perspective. That is why we have included a review after 6 months.

 

[MobBoss]

This will be a short term discussion thread for Q&A about this new policy:

Notices have been sent out to most of those affected. The remaining notices should be out by this time tomorrow. Do not ask if this applies to you.

If what has been posted above is still not clear, you may ask question in this thread.

Why was this released prior to all those being affected given notice first? Wouldnt it be unfair to someone who reads this tonight, thinks they have been released from the program, only to get a pm tomorrow? That would be a bit upsetting I would think, and could have been avoided by just waiting an additional day....

In other words, this does nothing to those on the list that have been released from it. They still have to wonder about it until all the notices have been sent out. Perhaps a 'congrats, your're off the TRPBH list' would have been nice as well...

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

I dont understand it. What exactly are the changes.

 

[Zelig]

I don't think this system is arbitrary and unpredictable enough.

 

[Perfection]

Dunno whom any of these people are, or this program, but I'm still waiting for the mods to do, well, anything (EDIT: noticeable and/or mentioned if asked if they are doing anything about them), about some problem users. I also don't think they are really going to change their behaviour just because of a few warnings on a forum, its something that would likely require a life-changing experience or just growing up/wiser as they go through life.

I dunno, if people are threatened with a ban, sometimes they'll change what they post so they don't get banned. I know I did.

Part of this though is a matter of respect. That's something that needs to be fostered between posters and moderators, and in large part determines if a problem poster follows the rules or not.

 

[Birdjaguar]

This isn't directly a question about the system, but: How long has the Road existed?

I'm not sure but 3-4 years I think. Some of you would know better than me.

The reality is, that there are certain mods that infract HEAVILY on certain people.

Can you see what I am getting at with that line?

You might as well Permaban us now, because with that amount of lee-way, we're doomed from the start.

This really sucks, I probably deserve it, but there are posters here that contribute alot, be they conservative or liberal, and with this stance you've taken, they'll be gone, and for what?

A light hearted comment?

Accidental spam?

Comment not good enough?

Will you even look at the context of the infractions?

We understand the seriousness of what we are doing and what it could mean to the current persona of those affected. I would not want to lose 10 years of posting history and 22,000 posts and have to start over with a DL that tries to mask who I had been posting as all those years. Any rhyming verse would give me away. This is serious business.

Yes, we know that mods have very different tolerances for what they infract and that creates real certainty for some of you. Life is like that sometimes, so post carefully. People may report your posts just because they don't like you, hoping you will get infracted. Post carefully.

I will encourage discussion when a mod want to award permanent points so we are sure they are deserved and will hold up under any review.

Unless you have a long history of injecting nothing but spam into threads, spam is not generally included in the guidelines for non expiring points. If we think that spam is a problem for a poster, we will mention it int he notification pm.

Keep in mind that the folks on this list and the only ones affected are less than 12 in number.