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Overall Civ Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by jlim201, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. Walter R

    Walter R Great Engineer

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2013
    Messages:
    713
    Location:
    England
    If someone were holding a gun to my head and said the only way I could live would be to beat a game of civ 5 on deity continents with standard settings, I think I'd get shot after remarkably few turns!
     
  2. VicRatlhead5199

    VicRatlhead5199 King

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Messages:
    966
    Location:
    Michigan
    The diplo penalty isn't bad as long as you are allied. In that game I was talking about I went to war with Portugal with America as an ally in the Classical. I took 3 cities, one was Lisbon, and never even hit warmonger status with America. I took Thebes later and still no modifier with America. Then I met Ethiopia, Korea and Brazil. I went to war against Ethiopia with Korea and Brazil as my allies. I took 4 cities, one was Addis Ababa, and didn't get a warmonger modifier with Korea, Brazil or America. Only the civs I'd been to war with and Russia had diplo modifiers for warmongering.

    A lot of the complaints about warmongering hate come from people who don't plan things out very well or just think they should be able to wage war with no repercussions. The fall patch really fixed things for me. Find a group of 2 or three friends and make sure when you go to war you bring allies. It works fine. Even taking capitals won't hurt you too much if you do it right. Only thing I still don't like is the hate you get for taking CS allies of civs you're at war with. It's ridiculous that they can attack you but all you can do is defend.
     
  3. Derpy Hooves

    Derpy Hooves Grand Inquisitor

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
    Messages:
    325
    Location:
    Muffins!
    Arabia - 24
    Austria - 12
    Aztec - 16
    Babylon - 19
    China - 27
    England - 23
    Ethiopia - 22
    Germany - 19
    Greece - 9
    Inca - 15
    Korea - 23
    Maya - 29
    Mongols - 14
    Persia - 17
    Poland - 21
    Portugal - 20
    Rome - 16
    Shoshone - 16
    Siam - 23
    Songhai - 11
    Spain - 1
    Sweden - 18
    Zulu - 22

    Godamn Poland is good, an entire free policy tree? Why thank you, ducal stables are also great, especially if you get a good amount of cattle, +15% production on top of half the Huns UA and no maintainance? Hell yeah.
    Winged Hussars are a bit meh, bad upgrade path, but show me a civ that doesn't have a single lackluster feature, and I'd rather have it be the UU then the UA, UI or UB.

    Spain going down, interesting but ultimately kind of pointless UU's, with a UA that is a complete waste most of the time, especially if you play certain maps, on the earth map for instance the only wonder you'll ever find is Fuji, yeah, that's really gonna help.
    Like Japan but without the damage bonus.
     
  4. cpm4001

    cpm4001 Goggleman

    Joined:
    May 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,989
    Location:
    Not here
    Huh? On the Earth map (unless you're playing Tiny, which you shouldn't be if you're playing Earth!) you have an amazing chance of finding the GBR and Sri Pada first no matter where you start. If you start in Europe, you'll probably nab the Rock of Gibraltar, while in North America you'll get 1,500 Gold for free guaranteed with a good chance of finding Cerro De Potosi. Yeah, that's useless.
    As for the UUs, the Conquistador is fantastic on any sort of map - they may not be able to settle many cities on a Pangaea but they still lack the -33% penalty against cities normal Knights have. The Tercio is universally good.
     
  5. seasnake

    seasnake Conquistador

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,880
    Location:
    California, United States
    Arabia - 24
    Austria - 12
    Aztec - 16
    Babylon - 19
    China - 27
    England - 23
    Ethiopia - 22
    Germany - 19
    Greece - 6
    Inca - 15
    Korea - 23
    Maya - 29
    Mongols - 14
    Persia - 17
    Poland - 21
    Portugal - 20
    Rome - 16
    Shoshone - 16
    Siam - 23
    Songhai - 11
    Spain - 1
    Sweden - 19
    Zulu - 22

    Sweden is an amazing beast, better than a lot of other civs in the game. In BNW civs want to make friends with the lump sum trading, you get 5 friends and that's +50 % GP production, as good as your National Epic/Leaning Tower combo. Even if you never gift them (and you will) that's still good. But the best is when you have an extra Admiral, Prophet or General -- use them for a while to spread religion or support your army, and then gift them for an instant ally.

    Greece used to be the best, now it's still good but the UUs aren't nearly as powerful as they once seemed to be.

    All the Spain hate is maddening, you don't just hope to find those tiles first, you plan to wipe out any city-states or civs that happen to be working those tiles. And you have some awesome UUs right around the time you're busily exploring the world. You see a tile worth 16 faith or 10 culture you don't just throw up your hands that someone got there first, your SPAIN, if the natives have something you want you go and take it!
     
  6. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    613
    Arabia - 24
    Austria - 12
    Aztec - 16
    Babylon - 19
    China - 27
    England - 23
    Ethiopia - 22
    Germany - 19
    Greece - 3
    Inca - 16
    Korea - 23
    Maya - 29
    Mongols - 14
    Persia - 17
    Poland - 21
    Portugal - 20
    Rome - 16
    Shoshone - 16
    Siam - 23
    Songhai - 11
    Spain - 1
    Sweden - 19
    Zulu - 22

    It looks like the Inca are getting hammered primarily by a single person who really hates them. I can't emphasize enough how great the UA is. Every one of your ranged units can move into hills and fire on the same turn. That's HUGE. You usually want to be on the hills anyway for LoS and the defensive perks. The gold bonus from cheap roads and R-roads is also huge. This money really adds up, and the Inca effectively get a large movement bonus in addition to their hill movement bonus from all of the free roads they can build. The UI is also really nice in combination with their start bias, and you'll want to search for mountains anyway for observatories. Yes, the UU isn't great, but promoted slingers are pretty handy front-line ranged units.

    Ding for Greece. While I like their UA, classical and ancient war is pretty limited in BNW, so their two UUs aren't worth much. Also, melee UUs aren't the best in any event.
     
  7. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    613
    Wiping out a city state or civ is pretty much the worst thing you can do in this game diplomatically. Pre-BNW, I'd totally agree with you, but Spain has lost its mojo recently.
     
  8. Aenthin

    Aenthin Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2013
    Messages:
    216
    Arabia - 25
    Austria - 12
    Aztec - 16
    Babylon - 19
    China - 27
    England - 23
    Ethiopia - 22
    Germany - 19
    Greece - 3
    Inca - 16
    Korea - 23
    Maya - 29
    Mongols - 14
    Persia - 17
    Poland - 21
    Portugal - 17
    Rome - 16
    Shoshone - 16
    Siam - 23
    Songhai - 11
    Spain - 1
    Sweden - 19
    Zulu - 22

    As much as I hate to admit it, Portugal does have weaknesses as an economic power. Feitorias are limited to CS's with coastal regions and, even if you started an archipelago map, you also have to be lucky they aren't generating the same luxury resources (I had one game where 80% of the CS's only had cotton as their luxury). The Naus make some quick money generation but the hammers on spending them can be saved for more useful stuff, plus obviously not very effective in Pangaea (or similar) maps. The UA is good at least, though still not the best.

    Arabia as an economic powerhouse is amazing though. Extended trade routes also mean you can start trading much early, provided you guard the routes from barbarian raids. Double luxuries also increases earnings through deals. If things go bad, Arabia still also has one of the better UUs to handle situations and, when they become obsolete, double the Battleships and Bombers from doubled oil resources make wars come and go very quickly.
     
  9. Nickbonista

    Nickbonista Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Gateshead, UK
    I can appreciate some of the hate for Spain, but they are fun to play
     
  10. cpm4001

    cpm4001 Goggleman

    Joined:
    May 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,989
    Location:
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    @seasnake is right. You don't play Spain "Happy Diplomatically", you play Spain "Aggressively Conquering". Someone has a Natural Wonder? You kill them. It's that simple. This actually meshes quite well with the high religious factor of Spain: get One With Nature and Holy Warriors and you can pretty much conquer the world.
     
  11. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    613

    I've always played them aggresively, but have you tried knocking out a CS early game in BNW (on a high difficulty level)? Early conquest ain't what it used to be.
     
  12. Memoryjar

    Memoryjar Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,244
    Location:
    Lille, France
    Arabia - 25
    Austria - 12
    Aztec - 16
    Babylon - 19
    China - 27 + 1 : 28. All is good. All is played. Defaults, be in the game since the start and easy to play.
    England - 23
    Ethiopia - 22
    Germany - 19
    Greece - 3
    Inca - 16
    Korea - 23
    Maya - 29
    Mongols - 14
    Persia - 17 - 3 = 14 : UA : i prefer Brazil. UU : it'a a one movement non-range unit. UB : Satrap's maybe, no Hanse (and in other way Buried Tomb).
    Poland - 21
    Portugal - 17
    Rome - 16
    Shoshone - 16
    Siam - 23
    Songhai - 11
    Spain - 1
    Sweden - 19
    Zulu - 22
     
  13. cpm4001

    cpm4001 Goggleman

    Joined:
    May 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,989
    Location:
    Not here
    Disclaimer: I'm an Emperor player, so I have little experience on the super hard levels.
    Yes, I have offed a CS early game and I well know it hurts big-time diplomatically. However, from what I've found, the trick to playing Spain is to get nearby Natural Wonders as quickly as possible (killing CSs or other Civs if neccessary) and then to play defensively until your UUs come online. THEN you go after the far away NWs. If you go for those right away you'll overextend yourself and get crushed.
     
  14. ehecatzin

    ehecatzin Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,335
    Arabia - 25
    Austria - 12
    Aztec - 16
    Babylon - 19
    China - 28
    England - 23
    Ethiopia - 22
    Germany - 19
    Greece - 0 OUT
    Inca - 16
    Korea - 23
    Maya - 29
    Mongols - 14
    Persia - 14
    Poland - 21
    Portugal - 17
    Rome - 16
    Shoshone - 16
    Siam - 23
    Songhai - 11
    Spain - 2
    Sweden - 19
    Zulu - 22

    Spain- Im going to stand for Spain on this one, while its UA its a dice roll, if you dont actively go exploring from turn 1 you are not going to take advantage of it in any way. Its very rare you wont find a wonder as Spain, and as others have mentioned Spain is the most effective when agressive, Spain is maybe the only civ I would risk taking a CS if it has the right NW. Also both UU's are decent.

    Greece- Im taking out Greece because while its UA is useful both its UU's are really bland, specially the Hoplite , they could really use some updating to at least make them flavourful.
     
  15. mposyncckh

    mposyncckh Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    73
    Arabia - 25
    Austria - 12+1=13
    Aztec - 16
    Babylon - 19
    China - 28
    England - 23
    Ethiopia - 22
    Germany - 19
    Inca - 16
    Korea - 23
    Maya - 29-3=26
    Mongols - 14
    Persia - 14
    Poland - 21
    Portugal - 17
    Rome - 16
    Shoshone - 16
    Siam - 23
    Songhai - 11
    Spain - 2
    Sweden - 19
    Zulu - 22

    Austria same as multiple times before see previous.
    I really think the Maya a bit over hyped they aren't bad by any means but their bonuses aren't great. Their ability is very powerful but unless a patch has fixed it I don't like how the power raises the threshold to get the next person. I really makes it you're just getting the person earlier which in this game is very very very good but I'd rather be a civ with different bonuses and still get the person later if that makes sense. Also since brave new world added three people that's that much longer until you are able to pick another scientist or engineer if you have enough baktuns for it. I really hate having to pick admirals and generals (yes it's not that big a thing but by that point I've forgotten how great early engineers and scientist were and I'm just ticked off. Their archers are nothing to me I generally have enough to build in my standard order that after I build all of those things I have the archery technology and can build archers anyway. Even though they are slightly cheaper it just doesn't do anything for me. Another stupid thing to having to research the archery technology without gaining archers really makes it annoying to research archery. I don't get why the building is considered so good either. Most people say a 4 tradition start is optimal so you are getting 8 science I don't know how that beats other buildings (save of course the Krepost and walls of Babylon which are awful) if you ics the extra science really just helps to defray the new tech penalty for number of cities. Also on a personal note I hate their colours it just bothers me.
     
  16. VicRatlhead5199

    VicRatlhead5199 King

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Messages:
    966
    Location:
    Michigan
    Arabia - 25
    Austria - 13
    Aztec - 16
    Babylon - 16 I know it's wrong to vote down such a great UA but that's all Babylon is, a nice UA. The UU was made kind of pointless when comp bows were added and the UB is boring. Yeah it makes walls strong but plain walls make cities easily defensible. Great for rushing through the tech tree but a totally boring civ otherwise.
    China - 28
    England - 23
    Ethiopia - 22
    Germany - 19
    Inca - 16
    Korea - 23
    Maya - 26
    Mongols - 14
    Persia - 14
    Poland - 21
    Portugal - 17
    Rome - 16
    Shoshone - 16
    Siam - 23
    Songhai - 11
    Spain - 3 Spain was the first civ I won deity with. The UA seems like a crapshoot and sometimes you do get unlucky but as long as you're diligent about exploring, and getting to astronomy ASAP you'll always get some nice early gold and maybe some good tiles to work. It has potential to be extremely powerful. The Tercio is a badass who is totally worth spamming and is very hard to kill if used right.
    Sweden - 19
    Zulu - 22
     
  17. ixias

    ixias Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2012
    Messages:
    205
    Gender:
    Male
    Arabia - 25
    Austria - 13
    Aztec - 16
    Babylon - 16
    China - 28
    England - 23
    Ethiopia - 22
    Germany - 19+1=20
    Inca - 16
    Korea - 23
    Maya - 26
    Mongols - 14
    Persia - 14
    Poland - 21
    Portugal - 17
    Rome - 16-3=13
    Shoshone - 16
    Siam - 23
    Songhai - 11
    Spain - 3
    Sweden - 19
    Zulu - 22

    I've downvoted Spain enough; I see their benefits, but I just really don't think they're that great.

    Germany, again, gets +1 from me. In response to the "Brute Army" complaint, you have to bring an archer with you to prevent that. The fact that you can amass an army without wasting the hammers is fantastic. The Hanse is one of the better UBs and makes CS trading really worth it (especially with Patronage and Freedom).

    Rome has a pretty decent UA, but the UUs don't do anything for me. I don't really care for units that don't have anything carry over on upgrade.
     
  18. LordDavius

    LordDavius Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Republic of Colorado
    Arabia - 25
    Austria - 13
    Aztec - 16
    Babylon - 16
    China - 28
    England - 23
    Ethiopia - 22
    Germany - 20
    Inca - 16
    Korea - 23
    Maya - 26+1=27
    Mongols - 14
    Persia - 14
    Poland - 21
    Portugal - 17
    Rome - 13
    Shoshone - 16
    Siam - 23
    Songhai - 11
    Spain - 3
    Sweden - 19-3=16
    Zulu - 22

    I feel dirty for down-voting the Swedes (I'm almost 50% Swedish by ancestry), but the Hakkapeliitta is just a bad UU, in my opinion. The Carolean ALMOST makes up for it, but compared to the others on this list, Sweden just doesn't stand up. Jag är ledsen.

    As for the Maya, they're my go-to Civ when I feel like another player is going to be a tough opponent. The early Science boost with the Pyramid is great, and since it holds on to the Faith from the Shrine, I can grab Messenger of the Gods early on. Then, it's just a rush to Writing and the Great Library, get Theology as quick as is reasonable, grab a Great Scientist at the start of the new B'ak'tun, and I'm a Science powerhouse before anyone has Universities.
     
  19. sendos

    sendos Immortal

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,134
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Arabia - 26 Solid UA, UB and UU. UA enables faster religious spread with trade routes, UB gives you extra gold and diplo bonuses thanks to spare luxury copy. UU is great for aggressive expansion during medieval era or maintaining defences, especially against the Zulus.
    Austria - 13
    Aztec - 16
    Babylon - 16
    China - 28
    England - 23
    Ethiopia - 22
    Germany - 20
    Inca - 16
    Korea - 23
    Maya - 27
    Mongols - 14
    Persia - 14
    Poland - 21
    Portugal - 17
    Rome - 13
    Shoshone - 16
    Siam - 23
    Songhai - 8 Average UA, but very ordinary UU and UB.
    Spain - 3
    Sweden - 16
    Zulu - 22
     
  20. nationstate

    nationstate Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    29
    Arabia - 26
    Austria - 13
    Aztec - 16
    Babylon - 16
    China - 28
    England - 23
    Ethiopia - 22
    Germany - 20
    Inca - 17 Best Tile Improvement in the game. Better UA and UU than Maya
    Korea - 23
    Maya - 24 Should not be this high. Inflexible UA, and UU with no Bonuses
    Mongols - 14
    Persia - 14
    Poland - 21
    Portugal - 17
    Rome - 13
    Shoshone - 16
    Siam - 23
    Songhai - 8
    Spain - 3
    Sweden - 16
    Zulu - 22
     

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