Overall Civ Elimination Thread

[Merciorum]

Arabia - 23
Aztec - 18
Babylon - 5
China - 25
England - 17
Ethiopia - 19
Germany - 20
Inca - 22
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 23
Portugal - 16
Shoshone - 6
Siam - 19
Sweden - 7
Zulu - 22

Portugal- Again, best civ for a diplo victory after Venice, and lacking Venice's vulnerabilities (and is actually a challenge, unlike Venice, which is hideously OP).

England- While it has great UUs, especially the Longbowman, the UA is mildly underwhelming. Mildly, though. Still good, but not quite as strong a naval UA as the sublime Ottomans. It's getting very hard to choose at this point, though (and it's making me feel very unpatriotic ).

Trouble with these things is that it isn't a measure of which civ is best, simply which civ is the least unpopular. Venice is a good example- go to the "favourite civ" poll, and it's very near the top, but here it was eliminated almost straight away. The only way to fix this would be a simple +2/-2, but then you'd end up getting into endless circles. Plus, it can't really be called objective anyway. Too many extremely good civs have been knocked off simply because they don't fit someone's playstyle (Venice), look bad on paper (Morocco), someone doesn't get how to play as them (Ottomans), or someone has some kind of ideological grudge against an aspect of the civ (Indonesia).

Still, it's a pretty fun game .

 

[ixias]

Arabia - 23
Aztec - 18
Babylon - 5+1=6
China - 25
England - 17
Ethiopia - 19
Germany - 20
Inca - 22
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 23
Portugal - 16-3=13
Shoshone - 6
Siam - 19
Sweden - 7
Zulu - 22

Babylon is consistently considered one of the better Civs, and for good reason. Sure the UU and UB aren't anything to write home about, but the UA is an absolute monster. Planting an academy that early in the game will most likely double your science output, which is key for any victory condition. The increased GS generation can allow you to plant more Academies, which can later be improved by WC and Social Policies. The UU let you hold off a bit on Comps and the UB can be good if you have an aggressive early neighbor trying to interrupt your teching. Again, not the most exciting Civ to play, but definitely powerful.

Portugal- Again, best civ for a diplo victory after Venice, and lacking Venice's vulnerabilities (and is actually a challenge, unlike Venice, which is hideously OP).

Ehh I'm not sure if I'd completely agree with this. Besides a bit more gold, Portugal doesn't get any bonuses to City-States. Sure the gold helps buy them out, but I think Civs like Germany, Siam, and Sweden (despite it being so low) do DV better. Portugal was a bit underwhelming to me. The UA is nice, but nothing that will completely change a game. The UU is decent, but, again, nothing that will change the game. The UI isn't bad, but it has some restrictions. Land-locked CS won't be affected, plus you need to have a lot of diversity in CS for it to really be useful. Overall, just a meh Civ to me - not bad, but not top tier.

 

[Troll4Hire]

The UB comes at a time when most of the CS's have most of their land improved anyhow (I play on the "plus" maps), and finding an unimproved plot of land that I then have to send my worker to is a bit tedious.

You can destroy their improvements while building a "Feitoria" (I hope i spelled it right). According to my experiences, they won't even notice that e.g. a farm's gone or something.

Arabia - 23
Aztec - 18
Babylon - 6
China - 25
England - 17
Ethiopia - 19
Germany - 20
Inca - 22
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 23
Portugal - 13
Shoshone - 6 + 1 = 7
Siam - 19 -3 = 16
Sweden - 7
Zulu - 22

Until I complete a game on a larger map with Sweden, I'm going to harass Siam a bit. Diplo-based UA is very situational, you get overbid and DoW-d, your bonus is gone. The UB makes it a more balanced civ, yet it's nothing extraordinary compared to the rest of the list.

The Shoshone on the other hand performs very well, with the extra land and combat bonus inside their borders they can work wider areas in a very short amount of time, meaning that they're probably going to sit on a wide variety of lux- and strategic resources. Both UUs perform well. I'd even risk choosing these guys in a game with ancient ruins turned off.

 

[Vraslosken]

Arabia - 23
Aztec - 18
Babylon - 7 One of the strongest civs. Their current position is absurd.
China - 25
England - 17
Ethiopia - 19
Germany - 20
Inca - 22
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 23
Portugal - 13
Shoshone - 7
Siam - 16
Sweden - 4 Their start bias destroys it for me.
Zulu - 22

 

[greygamer]

Trouble with these things is that it isn't a measure of which civ is best, simply which civ is the least unpopular.

This is probably why I find this thread a bit frustrating, people are asked to give a reason and the real one is sometimes simply 'I don't like 'em'

Too many extremely good civs have been knocked off simply because they don't fit someone's playstyle (Venice), look bad on paper (Morocco), someone doesn't get how to play as them (Ottomans), or someone has some kind of ideological grudge against an aspect of the civ (Indonesia).

Too true and if your first attempt with a civ is horrible then why go back? Now personally I will try several times, but if I don't get how to play them the experience is likely to remain the same. With so many civs the temptation is to just write that one off and play the others. At least with some civs in this thread some pointers were given on how to get a better result. not that it saved them.

Babylon is consistently considered one of the better Civs, and for good reason. Sure the UU and UB aren't anything to write home about, but the UA is an absolute monster. Planting an academy that early in the game will most likely double your science output, which is key for any victory condition. The increased GS generation can allow you to plant more Academies, which can later be improved by WC and Social Policies. The UU let you hold off a bit on Comps and the UB can be good if you have an aggressive early neighbor trying to interrupt your teching. Again, not the most exciting Civ to play, but definitely powerful.

This is the thing though, if a player struggles with a certain aspect of the game then to them that civ is OP because it helps them with that thing. This is even more the case if you play on the highest level(s). The game can be beaten on Diety with a number of civs (I would like to think any of them but I would have to defer to diety players on this thread).

Is a science boost better than a social policy boost? Well Poland is sitting pretty while Babylon is getting hammered so draw your own conclussions. In my opinion both UA are not very imaginative so I haven't played them much.

Arabia - 23
Aztec - 18
Babylon - 8 They don't deserve the hate
China - 25
England - 17
Ethiopia - 19
Germany - 20
Inca - 22
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 23
Portugal - 13
Shoshone - 4 Someone kill this civ off soon please, as I explained 2 scouts give you pretty much the same results for less cost without using a UU spot.
Siam - 16
Sweden - 4
Zulu - 22

 

[DanteTests]

Arabia - 23
Aztec - 18
Babylon - 8
China - 25
England - 17
Ethiopia - 19
Germany - 20
Inca - 22
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 23
Portugal - 13
Shoshone - 4 +1 = 5. Very well balanced and versatile civ. 2 normal scouts don't stand near one pathfinder.
Siam - 16 - 3 = 13. Too situational.
Sweden - 4
Zulu - 22

 

[ckoul]

Arabia - 23
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 8
China - 25
England - 16
Ethiopia - 19
Germany - 20
Inca - 22
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 23
Portugal - 13
Shoshone - 6
Siam - 13
Sweden - 4
Zulu - 22

* Corrections from post #407

 

[Ajay Sabharwal]

Arabia - 23
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 8
China - 25
England - 16
Ethiopia - 19
Germany - 20
Inca - 22
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 24
Portugal - 13
Shoshone - 6
Siam - 13
Sweden - 1 Die. Die. Die.
Zulu - 22

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Arabia - 23
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 8
China - 25
England - 18
Ethiopia - 19
Germany - 20
Inca - 22
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 24
Portugal - 13
Shoshone - 4
Siam - 13
Sweden - 1
Zulu - 22

England is a brilliant Civ, its definitely in the top 5 for me. They have double the spying capacity off the bat, which is really useful... And 2 of the best UU in the game. Good luck stopping England by conquest - they rule the seas and will keep you at range from their cities with the longbows.

Shoshone, they're just a bit average. Landgrab is great, and the early start boosts are good, but its not something you can't get with luck any way.

 

[VicRatlhead5199]

Arabia - 23
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 8
China - 25
England - 18
Ethiopia - 19
Germany - 21-Nice and versatile, fun to play and can be powerful in any VC. The UB is one of the best and the UU is a nice compliment to artillery and bombers in late game Ideological wars.
Inca - 22
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 24
Portugal - 10 The UI is good, the UA is good but the piles of gold from the UA kind of makes the UI unnecessary. Portugal can usually ally city states at will because of their income. I think the UI would be more useful for a civ with no economic bonuses or a warmonger who doesn't have as much to spend on CSs. The UU would be better if there were a cooldown on the exotic goods ability rather than it being a one time use. It's good for exploration otherwise pretty boring.
Shoshone - 4
Siam - 13
Sweden - 1
Zulu - 22

 

[arand86]

Arabia - 23
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 9 Seriously still have no idea why they're in single digits. Korea is at 24, and Babylon is very arguably better while doing the same thing; science.
China - 25
England - 18
Ethiopia - 19
Germany -21
Inca - 22
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 24
Portugal - 10
Shoshone - 4
Siam - 10 I used to consider Siam a top 5 civ, but now that the Pledge is down to 5, you no longer have the automatic friends with CSs which makes their UA substantially less useful. Still a great civ, but requires much more effort.
Sweden - 1
Zulu - 22

 

[Derpy Hooves]

I already seen a post saying that gold isn't really a problem with other civs, which makes the Papermaker a bit meh. The Mongols would conquer China pretty quick in my experience and their UU is around at the same time as the CKN. I'm not impressed with China as an AI, it usually gets into an early war with another AI and loses, making it an easy target to push around later on. I'm more concerned if Shaka or Attila is my neighbour, but that is at Emperor of course. Carrying on with my Austria game for now (just unlocked the UB) but already dominating with gpt while holding off the Songhai as a landlocked civ.

In my diety game Shaka forward settled on me, my army was mid-placed. He only had low tech units but enough archers/catapults to get the basic defences down. I can't recall exactly how much he brought; maybe 5-6 melee, 2-3 archers and at the end a couple of catapults. I think he built the Terracota army. My mistake was I got Masonary but didn't build my walls asap otherwise I would have heldout imo. I was just seeing if I could grab a natural wonder on Diety which I did. My neighbour there was Washington but he didn't even get upset about it.

Gold not a problem? It's pretty rare people are not running a deficit early game, when you're playing wide (which you probably will be doing as China anyway) those 3 extra gold per library (no 1 gold maintainance), and the Chu-Ko-Nu is extremely strong defensively, and also fairly strong for taking cities, but in garrisoning cities it's power really shines.
And ofcourse you should be more scared of Shaka or Attila as your neighbour, it basically forces you to kill them or deal with constant DoW's, China tends to leave me alone most of the time.
But hey, we're not rating them on AI competence, otherwise Hiawata would still be in here and Poland would have like 50 points.

I'd try deity out another time if you're inclined to, the first time you see your cities carpeted by units you'll be a bit shocked, but it's quite a fun change from the normally pretty easy wars.

Also have to correct a problem with the list, TheGrandWazoo only subtracted 2 points from Shoshone, so they should be at 3 now.

Aztec - 19
Babylon - 9
China - 25
England - 18
Ethiopia - 19
Germany - 21
Inca - 22
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 24
Portugal - 10
Shoshone - 0
Siam - 13
Sweden - 1
Zulu - 22

Let's get Nebuchy up to the higher tiers where he belongs, I suspect a lot of people that have downvoted him did so because they didn't play him, either because he's one of those pesky DLC civ's or because his playstyle is extremely boring. Science is your main priority, and Babylon destroys the science game.

Shoshone, really fun, powerful start, but they have nothing going for them later in the game where you usually need it a lot more.
Comanche riders? Hah!

 

[Memoryjar]

Aztec - 19
Babylon - 9
China - 25
England - 18
Ethiopia - 19
Germany - 21
Inca - 22 - 3 = 19 : Start base without hills near, on an island : good luck Ripley. I had it, I hate Inca since.
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 24
Portugal - 10
Siam - 13
Sweden - 1 + 1 = 2 : I'm fan, better than Portugal. Just have friends and bubble what you need : Science, Great Works, golden ages. In all victory conditions. And Caroleans scare me more than Impies.
Zulu - 22

 

[Walter E Kurtz]

Aztec - 19 - 3 = 16 Jaguars suck and the extra culture doesn't really catch on in the larger perspective, imho
Babylon - 9 + 1 = 10 Back in the double digits with good reason I think
China - 25
England - 18
Ethiopia - 19
Germany - 21
Inca - 19
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 24
Portugal - 10
Siam - 13
Sweden - 2
Zulu - 22

 

[cpm4001]

Aztec - 16
Babylon - 10
China - 25
England - 18
Ethiopia - 19
Germany - 21
Inca - 19
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 24
Portugal - 10
Siam - 13 - 3 = 10 - Everything about Siam is dull, dull, dull...
Sweden - 2 + 1 = 3 - Everything about Sweden is amazing, amazing, amazing (if you know how to play 'em, that is.)
Zulu - 22

 

[Chippeth]

Aztec - 16
Babylon - 10
China - 25
England - 18
Ethiopia - 16
Germany - 21
Inca - 19
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 25
Portugal - 10
Siam - 10
Sweden - 3
Zulu - 22

Poland are great. Easily the best civ, and pretty fun too.

And I hate to downvote the same civ two times in a row, but Haile is the only leader I think needs to go before the others. Sorry Ethiopia.

 

[Viregel]

Aztec - 16
Babylon - 10
China - 25
England - 18
Ethiopia - 16
Germany - 21
Inca - 19
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 25
Portugal - 10
Siam - 7 Would be nice, but there's just not a massive amount of synergy.
Sweden - 4 Sweden deserves to live longer. It's just awesome if you know how to play them, and they are a lot more flexible than Siam in my opinion.
Zulu - 22

 

[seasnake]

Aztec - 16
Babylon - 10
China - 25
England - 18 - 3 = 15
Ethiopia - 16
Germany - 21
Inca - 19
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 25
Portugal - 10
Siam - 7
Sweden - 4 + 1 = 5
Zulu - 22

England is a fine civ but not as dominant as the ones that are left. Whereas a peaceful Sweden player can double their GP points in all their cities. In a way they're kind of opposites: England has a UA that can be useful and really nice UUs, Sweden has UUs that can be useful and a really nice UA.

 

[Lights]

Aztec - 16
Babylon - 10
China - 25
England - 15
Ethiopia - 16
Germany - 21
Inca - 19
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 25
Portugal - 11 Money, money everywhere, those 40 gpt trade routes... are really powerful and the feitoria means free happiness resources. The nau is not that great but 200 money from every caravel it's nice.
Siam - 7
Sweden - 2 Tundra start bias... Without that start bias it would be much better.
Zulu - 22

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Aztec - 16
Babylon - 10
China - 25
England - 15
Ethiopia - 16
Germany - 21
Inca - 19
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Poland - 25
Portugal - 12
Siam - 7
Sweden - 0 (ded)
Zulu - 22

+1 to Portugal. Sweet money flows in, and you get a nice, very unique UI and a Nau which is going to give you some money.

Sweden... Has an overrated UA. Only Great Generals/Great Admirals are really worth giving to city states, because 90 influence is pretty much what you get for 1000 Gold with Patronage's policy. I find the Carolean nice, but severely overrated. March is a cool promotion, but it doesn't have anything else. The Janissary is superior, because it's promotion you can't get any other way. Also, the Lancer replacement is just bad.