Overall Civ Elimination Thread

[greygamer]

One line of reasoning that's been given quite a few times in this thread that is particularly irking is the "all they have is one thing" line, when referring to civs that have one extremely good perk, balanced by the drawback of several less useful or even useless perks. It's as if they can't conceive of the possibility that that one thing could be better than all the rest of a 'balanced' civ's bonuses put together. I.E. Babylon (UA) and now Ethiopia (UB). Very frustrating.

Btw as someone who only recently discovered the thread, I'm unfamiliar with the rules. From what I gather it's +1/-3 per post. Can anyone participate? How often are you allowed to post?

Thanks,

I think voting is allowed once per day and you must give a reason of course. The one that irks me is 'water based UU/UA', and yet most maps will have water

 

[greygamer]

Soffacet: My understanding is that anyone may participate, and that there's a 24-hour period between votes.

Also, I see that the OP clarified early on that he was walking about power-rankings for this, but that's been far from universally-applied. Thus some people love a civ like Babylon, which has one very powerful thing. Others find that sort of civ to be one-note and boring. Some people like civs that force them into playing things differently (like Venice, India, Ethiopia, Byzantium) and others hate those. For some people power more or less equals "fun," and for others it doesn't. Some people are assuming pangea, while others assume archipelago or continents. Some people play on Diety, others on Prince, etc.

So there's a lot going on here. I'm personally most frustrated by the arguments against naval civs for being focused on naval stuff, becomes it seems to me like a weird sort of powergamer logic that discards a major part of the game (which is also for me the most engaging part, so I'm biased) but if that's how someone likes to play, more power to 'em.

You must have posted while I was posting, on the water-based bias.
For me powerful, means best chance to win by whatever criteria you are using. Probably would have been better if certain game parameters were also specified, map type(s) size, level etc.

 

[Walter R]

Arabia - 18
Aztec - 9
China - 20-3=17
England - 5+1=6
Ethiopia - 5
Germany - 16
Inca - 18
Korea - 23
Maya - 27
Poland - 22
Portugal - 6
Siam - 2
Zulu - 10

I saw another poster downvoted England for being 'too shippy' - so in like fashion I downvoted the excellent China for being 'too Chu'. Seems that reasoned arguments have been left far behind...

 

[Walter R]

So there's a lot going on here. I'm personally most frustrated by the arguments against naval civs for being focused on naval stuff, becomes it seems to me like a weird sort of powergamer logic that discards a major part of the game (which is also for me the most engaging part, so I'm biased) but if that's how someone likes to play, more power to 'em.

Totally agree.

 

[Troll4Hire]

I saw another poster downvoted England for being 'too shippy' - so in like fashion I downvoted the excellent China for being 'too Chu'. Seems that reasoned arguments have been left far behind...

Sir, you made my day with the "too Chu" comment.

Arabia - 18
Aztec - 9
China - 17
England - 6 + 1 = 7
Ethiopia - 5
Germany - 16
Inca - 18
Korea - 23
Maya - 27
Poland - 22
Portugal - 6
Siam - 2 - 3 = -1 // Off the list.
Zulu - 10

I'd like to add a point to England, because i drink more tea than a stereotypical British citizen.
(other than that, i think it's kinda obvious that the extra spy helps a lot, especially if you happens to be #2 #3 or even worse in sci in tech, or in rigging elections, etc; the longbowman is great if you keep in mind how you should move it around on rought terrain; also i recently tried England on Small Islands Plus - SOTL as a UU with exploration is still magnificent.)

As for Siam, i still think that a somewhat overall bonus like what Siam has is rather a "Jack of all trades - master of none" approach, each and every one of the civs left on this list can do better, especially the recently downvoted Zulus.

 

[isau]

Arabia - 18
Aztec - 9 +1 = 10
China - 17
England - 7
Ethiopia - 5
Germany - 16 -3 = 13
Inca - 18
Korea - 23
Maya - 27
Poland - 22
Portugal - 6
Zulu - 10


We're getting down to the bone here.

Sweden would have gotten my +1 again but since they're gone already the Aztecs get the bump. The Aztecs are IMO better than several others on this list (England and Portugal I'm looking at you. )

I think Germany is still around mainly because it's not bad enough to really draw attention to itself. But IMO it's also not good enough to be hanging out with this bunch and really needs to be sent packing before we get to the final 8.



RE: People's criteria for voting. Keep in mind we're getting toward the end here so slight faults are enough to possibly knock a civ out. All of the civs listed are pretty good. The most important thing to come out of this forum game is probably the discussion rather than the actual ranking. I also don't think anyone expected the game to produce perfect rankings. We need to keep in mind that different players have different criteria. Also, the nature of this game favors early elimination for civs that call attention to themselves, hence Venice being knocked out early on.

 

[VicRatlhead5199]

RE: People's criteria for voting. Keep in mind we're getting toward the end here so slight faults are enough to possibly knock a civ out. All of the civs listed are pretty good. The most important thing to come out of this forum game is probably the discussion rather than the actual ranking. I also don't think anyone expected the game to produce perfect rankings. We need to keep in mind that different players have different criteria. Also, the nature of this game favors early elimination for civs that call attention to themselves, hence Venice being knocked out early on.

Well at least somebody gets it. I think most of the civs are pretty balanced and all of the ones left (and a lot of the eliminated ones) are pretty powerful in their own right. There's no way to pit them all against each other just in general. The different options, maps and difficulties, even speeds change the rankings. Ancient and Classical UUs are immensely important on epic or marathon and almost inconsequential on standard or quick. The same can be applied to almost any variable. It really is going to come down to the most versatile and popular civ.

I find the SV to be one of the weaker VCs since BNW. The new diplo victory kills it imo since just hitting the information era triggers voting. You now need to not only tech fast but also be going for a diplo vic or at least actively trying to stop it at the same time. It's one of the reasons I'm not so thrilled about Babylon anymore. In my opinion a BNW SV is easier to get with Sweden than Babylon because they can get their GS bonus up to 50% fairly easy and have an advantage in diplomacy that Babylon doesn't. Oh, not to mention that Sweden has at least one good UU which Babylon does not. That's obviously just my opinion because Sweden got ousted first but I'm not whining over it.

If your pet civ gets eliminated move on to a different one and support it instead. Of course this isn't scientific. It's based entirely on personal preferences and playstyles and downvotes are triple the strength of upvotes. If you can't stomach other peoples' opinions you probably would be better off just unplugging your router now.

Arabia - 18
Aztec - 11 Quite possibly one of the most underrated UU/UB combo in the game. The Jag keeps its promotions and can be built all the way up to metal casting which is rarely the first medieval tech to be researched in any strategy. Unlike most growth modifiers the UB gives its benefit to food production prior to consumption giving it a huge impact on growth. The UA forces you into conflict but is really pretty solid for any VC since it works just as well on defense. Engineer a dispute and set up a killing field. Let your enemies send walking culture to your doorstep.
China - 17
England - 7
Ethiopia - 2 The UU is only so so and the UA can be weird if the AI decides not to expand.
Germany - 13
Inca - 18
Korea - 23
Maya - 27
Poland - 22
Portugal - 6
Zulu - 10

 

[SalemSage]

Arabia - 18
Aztec - 11 - 3 = 8
China - 17
England - 7
Ethiopia - 2
Germany - 13
Inca - 18
Korea - 23 + 1 = 24
Maya - 27
Poland - 22
Portugal - 6
Zulu - 10

Now that it's getting down to the last few civs, it's getting really hard to pick who to deduct and who to increase!

I feel really bad about hurting the Aztecs - they have a really unique playstyle - but I can't help but feel they were slightly nerfed in BNW. Since Culture alone no longer helps you win a Culture Victory, their UA is now only a nice bonus instead of something you can pursue. I really really enjoyed playing as the Aztecs and getting a stealth Culture victory, but this approach isn't really feasible since BNW. Their UU is great, and their UB is fantastic, but... everyone else also has great things going for them, so that's who I choose to hurt. Sorry Monty, I like you, I really do! Please don't sacrifice me!

...Meanwhile, Korea. Babylon may be gone, but I always preferred Korea anyway. Babylon's UA is effective, true, but it's one dimensional. Get Great Scientists, get more Great Scientists. Korea's, on the other hand, is a little more complex - and therefore fun, in my opinion. That +2 science on specialists and great person improvements is pretty incredible - If you go Piety and grab Messiah, and plant as many Great Prophets as you can, you'll be rolling in Faith, Culture, Gold AND science! You're also encouraged to get your Guilds up and filled as soon as possible, too, meaning Korea can make a surprise Culture Victory, having the science to keep ahead and get the wonders he needs. Combine that with tech boosts from scientific buildings and wonders - Korea's UA is just as good as Babylon's, IMO, but more fun to use. (I actually won a space victory as them in BNW, and I didn't have to deliberately put off Culture or Diplomatic victory for it either!)

Then there's their UUs. Some might say they're pretty bad, but I think they're incredible. See, Korea's UUs are all about Defence. H'wachas are just plain fun to use - I often keep combat animations on just to see them fire - and keeping them in key defensible locations means you're set for land defence. For sea defence, there's the Turtle Ship - and this thing is a MONSTER. It literally will not die until it's well obsoleted. The fact that it can't enter ocean is a point against it - but consider the fact that you're Korea! You can tech to Privateers pretty quickly, right? Use those to scout over the oceans - and meanwhile, your Turtle Ships still aren't obsolete, faithfully kept by your coastal cities, all but guaranteeing they're safe from naval assaults.

When I choose civs to upvote, I don't go for what's strongest overall. I also go for what's fun. Korea is both strong AND fun, so that's why I'm voting them up and I'm glad to see they're still going strong in this poll.

 

[Soffacet]

Soffacet: My understanding is that anyone may participate, and that there's a 24-hour period between votes.

Thanks.

Arabia - 18
Aztec - 8
China - 17
England - 7 + 1 = 8
Ethiopia - 2
Germany - 13 - 3 = 10
Inca - 18
Korea - 24
Maya - 27
Poland - 22
Portugal - 6
Zulu - 10

The German Hanse is really good but the rest of the group is so strong. It's just not on the level of the early faith, science boosts, growth boosts, free SPs, and/or elite warmonger assets you can get from the other remaining civs.

England's domination snowball is smooth and strong. Cargo Ships offer unparalleled early growth and mid/late income. Landsknecht & Longbow is a very strong timing push, especially against AI that doesn't understand 3-tile range. Naval Dominance is still the easiest route to domination victory, even on Pangaea, especially against AI that does not understand naval or coastal combat. Sun Never Sets is also useful for everything from pillaging Cargo Ships to finding that one Natural Wonder that every city state wants discovered, and it really helps Admirals and Embarked units too. +1 Spy is some pretty useful gravy.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Arabia - 18
Aztec - 8
China - 17
England - 9 (+1)
Ethiopia - 2
Germany = 10
Inca - 18
Korea - 24
Maya - 27
Poland - 22
Portugal - 3 (-3)
Zulu - 10

England has TWO insanely great UU's, and a more-than-decent UA. Seriously, why is this so low? Should be 20, not below 10! Longbowman is great, SOTL is great, UA is decent-great (depends on the map) because of that free Spy. With ranged dominance of Crossbowman and the fact the only thing countering Frigates is more Frigates (or SOTL's), it's a miracle it's not higher up.
Also SOTL rhymes with KOTL. And bottle. Kind of.

-3 to Portugal. I love the civ and it's very different to many others, but it's just worse than anything else on the list. UU doesn't help in fighting at all and only generates more gold, UA generates more gold, and UI gives free luxuries. Great, awesome and fun, just... not good enough.

 

[whyidie]

Arabia - 19
Aztec - 8
China - 17
England - 9
Ethiopia - 2
Germany = 10
Inca - 18
Korea - 24
Maya - 27
Poland - 22
Portugal - 0
Zulu - 10

Down to Portugal. Money is nice, if bland. Nau and Feitoria are neat, but add a lot of unit moving work, which lack of waypoints turns into a bit of a chore. Love the Naus visibility boost.

Up to Arabia. If you're playing on levels where you are dominating easily, you probably won't appreciate the beauty of the Civ. If you're playing at a level where AI is giving you a challenge (could be warlord, maybe not diety) Arabia is insane. Give them a roll, play your normal game and see what happens.

1st or 2nd best UU in the game. Double Oil. Extra gold. Duplicate lux's. More gold. Petra start. Extra range on trade routes. Even more gold. Trade routes spreading religion more effectively. Its kind of stupid the amount of bonuses they get and you don't have to do anything different. Arabia is the easy button.

 

[cpm4001]

Arabia - 19 + 1 = 20
Aztec - 8
China - 17
England - 9
Ethiopia - 2
Germany = 10
Inca - 18
Korea - 24
Maya - 27 - 3 = 24
Poland - 22
Zulu - 10

Arabia - Everything whyidle said and more. Load up Arabia and let the money, happiness, money, happiness, and money roll in.

The Maya - Not a bottom-tier civ by any stretch of the imagination, but they definitely don't deserve to be ranked higher than Sweden. At most you'll get 6 "free" Great People (each one raises the cost of the next of that type AND they have to be different Great People too, which just further weakens the UA) but only after you beeline a tech that's horribly out of a logical tech path. The atl-atlist is a meh UU, and while the Pyramid is a good UB it just can't save this civ.

 

[Josh123914]

Arabia - 20
Aztec - 8
China - 17
England - 10 - The best civ with 2 UUs left. Yes, BETTER than Mongols imo (except maybe on Pangaea :/).
Ethiopia - 2
Germany = 10
Inca - 18
Korea - 24
Maya - 21 - While good, it seems like a more offensive version of Sweden with its GP bonuses, however unlike Sweden, it doesn't have a UU that helps with late game expansion, and as such its science advantage goes to waste in wartimes.
Poland - 22
Zulu - 10

 

[dob.KrazY]

Arabia - 20
Aztec - 8 - 3 = 5 I found Aztecs really underwhelming when I tried them.
China - 17 + 1 = 18 China is one of the best civs. Good all around, can achieve any type of victory. No reason for them to not be in the top 5.
England - 10
Ethiopia - 2
Germany = 10
Inca - 18
Korea - 24
Maya - 21
Poland - 22
Zulu - 10

 

[Navelgazer]

Arabia - 20
Aztec - 5
China - 18
England - 10
Ethiopia - 2
Germany - 7 - The patch improved them like crazy, but I think their time has come here. They are now very decent, but not top-tier. Also apparently I'm rhyming.
Inca - 18
Korea - 24
Maya - 21
Poland - 22
Zulu - 11 - The best warmonger civ, don't want to see it go just yet.

And I didn't feel right striking the killing blow on Ethiopia after downvoting them yesterday and killing off Rome just a few days before that.

 

[VicRatlhead5199]

...Meanwhile, Korea. Babylon may be gone, but I always preferred Korea anyway. Babylon's UA is effective, true, but it's one dimensional. Get Great Scientists, get more Great Scientists. Korea's, on the other hand, is a little more complex - and therefore fun, in my opinion. That +2 science on specialists and great person improvements is pretty incredible - If you go Piety and grab Messiah, and plant as many Great Prophets as you can, you'll be rolling in Faith, Culture, Gold AND science! You're also encouraged to get your Guilds up and filled as soon as possible, too, meaning Korea can make a surprise Culture Victory, having the science to keep ahead and get the wonders he needs. Combine that with tech boosts from scientific buildings and wonders - Korea's UA is just as good as Babylon's, IMO, but more fun to use. (I actually won a space victory as them in BNW, and I didn't have to deliberately put off Culture or Diplomatic victory for it either!)

That actually sounds kind of fun. I might try a Korean piety game next just for kicks. I haven't been a fan of their UUs since G&K changed the mechanics of caravels and siege equipment. Turtle ships used to be better for turtling when they could bombard, melee ships seem more suited to offense but the cannot enter ocean kind of limits its offensive capacity. I also don't like the idea of building a bunch of Hwach'as for defense just to upgrade them back into the siege line and be crap against units. That's made Korea unattractive to me for a while but the idea of super holy sites is interesting. Later on there will be landmarks to work for science too. Could be fun.

 

[redwings1340]

Arabia - 17 Only downvoting Arabia because they're so high right now. Ethiopia has a better UB. England's 2 UUs are better than Arabia's 1 great UU. Arabia's UA is terrible and is one of the worst ones on this list. Their start bias is good, but that isn't a guarantee of success. China has almost as good a UB, as good a UU, and a better UA. Comparing it to these other civs, there's nothing that sets them too far apart.
Aztec - 5
China - 18
England - 10
Ethiopia - 3 The UB alone makes these guys top tier. A free first pick religion is awesome! I'd take them over most of these other civs any day.
Germany - 7
Inca - 18
Korea - 24
Maya - 21
Poland - 22
Zulu - 11

 

[ixias]

Arabia - 17
Aztec - 5-3=2
China - 18
England - 10
Ethiopia - 3
Germany - 7
Inca - 18
Korea - 24+1=25
Maya - 21
Poland - 22
Zulu - 11

As I've said before, the Aztecs aren't bad. I just think, out of the remaining warmongers, the Aztecs are the weakest.

As much as I'd like to vote Germany up, I think that's an uphill battle and, frankly, I don't think they're the best. Korea, however, I think is the best Civ. Science > everything else because there's so much you can do with it.

 

[nationstate]

Arabia - 17
Aztec - 3 Gives incentive for early combat with barbs due to great unit and lots of culture.
China - 15 UA only gives minor benefit toward war. The extra generals are unecessary.
England - 10
Ethiopia - 3
Germany - 7
Inca - 18
Korea - 25
Maya - 21
Poland - 22
Zulu - 11

Fixed Previous Post

 

[Josh123914]

Can I just say I'm amazed how even this has become? I mean literally anyone has a chance here.

This is vastly different to the UA and UU polls, where it inevitably ended up with about 4 left, each with ~40 points each.