Panetta: So far, DADT A "Non-Event"

[JollyRoger]

They are midshipmen. Not Gay-Midshipmen. Simply Midshipmen. They are seperating themselves, and there are no unique flowers in the military. THere is no place for Gay Clubs in any military organization, period.

So does it distract you?

 

[capslock]

Its not a distraction for me. Its a distraction for them. Those participating. See my last post.

 

[JollyRoger]

Its not a distraction for me. Its a distraction for them. Those participating. See my last post.

How do you know it's a distraction? Have you attended? Is it a distraction when straights go to a club?

 

[say1988]

They are midshipmen. Not Gay-Midshipmen. Simply Midshipmen. They are seperating themselves, and there are no unique flowers in the military. THere is no place for Gay Clubs in any military organization, period.

I take it every you believe student organization (including the football team) should be banned from military academies?

 

[MobBoss]

I take it every you believe student organization (including the football team) should be banned from military academies?

I dont think most reasonable people would equate the football team with a student organization based solely on their sexuality.

Having a 'gay' club is just as wrong as having one labeled 'straight club' or 'bi club'. It goes against what the military tries so hard to establish for discipline: uniformity.

 

[say1988]

You are segregating the students. Separating them goes against the uniformity.

What about the Baptists Student Union? And the other religious organizations, should they be banned for going against uniformity?

 

[MobBoss]

You are segregating the students. Separating them goes against the uniformity.

What about the Baptists Student Union? And the other religious organizations, should they be banned for going against uniformity?

I'm talking about the military, not a school.

 

[capslock]

How do you know it's a distraction? Have you attended? Is it a distraction when straights go to a club?

Because its teaching them that being gay makes them different and/or special. They draw attention to themselves as individuals, and seperate themselves from the rest of the group. Like I said, they are Midshipmen, not Gay-Midshipmen. In my opinion, this is a bad lesson for them to learn as young officers to be.

There are plenty of existing activities, organizations, clubs for Midshipmen to participate in already..

 

[say1988]

Except the discussion was in reference to an organization at the Naval Academy.

But if you have a problem with that, how about the Officers' Christian Fellowship?

 

[Arakhor]

Does the US military have no Christian, Muslim or other "lifestyle choices" groups?

 

[Formaldehyde]

They are midshipmen. Not Gay-Midshipmen. Simply Midshipmen. They are seperating themselves, and there are no unique flowers in the military. THere is no place for Gay Clubs in any military organization, period.

Then I take it you are completely opposed to evangelical groups effectively taking over the Air Force Academy and exerting far more influence in many military bases than they should in any sort of secular society, much less a military one?

adets For Christ: Women, Evangelicals, and the Air Force Academy

This is the most recent development in an outrageous story that has been developing over the better part of this year, so, for those who need to be brought up to speed, here's what's going on in as small of a nutshell as I can put it:

There's a fundamentalist ministry operating at the Air Force Academy called Cadets For Christ. This ministry is part of the "shepherding" movement, using cult-like tactics by which the cadets recruited by ministry leaders Don and Anna Warrick are separated from their families and anything else that might interfere with their brainwashing. In the shepherding movement, the female is the "sheep" and the male is the "shepherd," and a woman's sole purpose in life is to be a good wife and mother, subordinating herself to her male shepherd.

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) has been contacted by a number of parents of Academy cadets who have fallen prey to the Warricks' ministry, and one of these families has been brave enough to go public with their story.

Peter and Jean Baas, the parents of 2010 Academy graduate Lauren Baas, are now completely estranged from their daughter. Why? Because the Baas family is Catholic, and therefore, according to the Warricks, unsaved. While at the Academy, Lauren Baas, who entered the Academy with dreams of becoming an Air Force pilot, was prepared for what can only be described as an arranged marriage by the Warricks, and is now engaged to her shepherd. A woman, of course, is destined by God to be a good wife and mother and serve her shepherd, not be an Air Force pilot and serve her country.

Lest anyone think that the "sheep and shepherd" terminology might be an exaggeration, just take a look at Lauren Baas's "Baa Baa Sisterhood" cookbook.

Air Force Academy Sued Over Prayer Luncheon Speaker

The Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs is being sued for its decision to invite a controversial conservative speaker to a voluntary prayer event.

The Academy, which has taken criticism in recent years for forcing religious beliefs on students, invited Marine 1st Lt. Clebe McClary--a nationally-known motivational speaker--to speak at a National Prayer Luncheon scheduled for Feb. 10.

Clebe McClary Called 'Too Evangelical' For Air Force Academy By Activist Group

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation, long a thorn in the side of the Air Force Academy, wrote in a letter to Gould that retired Marine 1st Lt. Clebe McClary--a nationally-known motivational speaker--harbors ideas that are "not only antithetical to the clear mission of the United States Air Force Academy, they are totally anathema to the purportedly globally inclusive purpose of this National Prayer Luncheon."

The letter notes that McClary--a wounded Vietnam vet who overcame his injuries--says on his website that "U.C.M.C. will always mean a U. S. Marine for Christ."

 

[MobBoss]

Except the discussion was in reference to an organization at the Naval Academy.

But if you have a problem with that, how about the Officers' Christian Fellowship?

Been in the military for over 25 years. Never heard of it.

Does the US military have no Christian, Muslim or other "lifestyle choices" groups?

I dont think it sanctions any; they would probably have to be private groups.

 

[Formaldehyde]

There are plenty of existing activities, organizations, clubs for Midshipmen to participate in already..

You mean organizations where they all have something in common? Why is this any different at all?

 

[Flying Pig]

Because its teaching them that being gay makes them different and/or special. They draw attention to themselves as individuals, and seperate themselves from the rest of the group. Like I said, they are Midshipmen, not Gay-Midshipmen. In my opinion, this is a bad lesson for them to learn as young officers to be.

I think this man's right, particularly during training. Put bluntly, until you're done with that, you're not supposed to be an individual - the tighter the team, the better its members are doing, and anything which separates them ought to be treated with suspicion.

 

[JollyRoger]

I dont think most reasonable people would equate the football team with a student organization based solely on their sexuality.

Having a 'gay' club is just as wrong as having one labeled 'straight club' or 'bi club'. It goes against what the military tries so hard to establish for discipline: uniformity.

The military doesn't have officers' clubs?

DADT promoted uniformity?

 

[MobBoss]

The military doesn't have officers' clubs?

Of course it does, but they arent based on any other criteria than their federal commission, not their sexuality, religious affiliation, height, weight, hairstyle, etc. etc.

DADT promoted uniformity?

How could it not?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

By distinguising on sexuality.

 

[JollyRoger]

Of course it does, but they arent based on any other criteria than their federal commission, not their sexuality, religious affiliation, height, weight, hairstyle, etc. etc.

Lack of ujniformity was my point which I thank you for reinforcing.

How could it not?

A subset was forbiddien from having evidence of their home life while the rest were allowed their wedding bands and pictures of their spouse.

 

[Flying Pig]

By distinguising on sexuality.

This. Without it, those involved would simply have been 'soldiers' and sexuality would not have figured - there would not have been 'gay soldiers' any more than there were 'ginger soldiers' or 'football-playing soldiers'. With it in place, people were forced to self-identify as 'gay soldiers' and make a conscious effort to keep that identity hidden

 

[Formaldehyde]

I think this man's right, particularly during training. Put bluntly, until you're done with that, you're not supposed to be an individual - the tighter the team, the better its members are doing, and anything which separates them ought to be treated with suspicion.

So four years of college is supposed to be the same as a few weeks of boot camp? That is patently absurd. Not to mention everybody has already seen all those Hollywood movies full of those trite cliches so it really has no effective purpose at all anymore.

Homosexuals having their own organizations in the military is no different than bowling leagues or Christian groups. Just imagine how many of the Christians would howl they were being discriminated against if you even suggested they disband.