Paris burning

[Marla_Singer]

30,000 ? That´s an average of 95 per day!

BTW, why on new year´s eve?

Because it's fun.

 

[Little Raven]

Auto insurance rates in France must be insane.

 

[Steph]

30,000 ? That´s an average of 95 per day!

BTW, why on new year´s eve?

It makes nice fireworks

 

[AceChilla]

What amazes me (without having read the thread) is that the French/europeans seem... pretty tolerant of all of this.

I can tell you that if those kinds of thing happened around here and the gov't refused to do anything (unlikely, that's why we have the National Guard), it would only be a night or two before the little sh*ts were met by a group of good 'ol boys who would be more than willing to draw a line in the sand and dare them to cross it.

No we let them go ahead, after all its all our fault and otherwise they might feel discriminated against and start doing bad things like...like burning other peoples cars or something.

 

[kryszcztov]

SonicX's friend's affair makes me feel even more alienated against Society, particularly against all those who profit from the system. Like car insurances... That's not terrorism, that IS vandalism !! I'd suggest your friend to find a way to get insured for that. If it appears that the Law is against him, then it'd be time for civil desobediance !! Maybe burning the car belonging to the car insurance's President will make good effect ? The primary goal of the Law is to protect those who make it. But hey, is that new ?...

 

[Masquerouge]

To all who disagree with me, why don't you get off Civfanatics and read the news:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/09/AR2005110901177_pf.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4395934.stm
http://www.altmuslim.com/perm.php?id=1580_0_26_0_M

These riots have everything to do with Islam. It is you Masquerouge who demonstrates a lack of understanding concerning Islam and the world.

~Chris

I think TheDuckOfFlanders pretty much said what I have to say. Your sources are actually AGAINST your point, dude.

BTW, why on new year´s eve?

Interesting story. Apparently people burn cars, then media reports about it, then it gets into a kind of contest to see which banlieue will burn the most cars, then of course media reports that, then...

 

[SonicX]

SonicX's friend's affair makes me feel even more alienated against Society, particularly against all those who profit from the system. Like car insurances... That's not terrorism, that IS vandalism !! I'd suggest your friend to find a way to get insured for that. If it appears that the Law is against him, then it'd be time for civil desobediance !! Maybe burning the car belonging to the car insurance's President will make good effect ? The primary goal of the Law is to protect those who make it. But hey, is that new ?...

It's not really the insurance company it's fault, it's how the juridicial system is made. Their reaction of not paying was an initial and juridicially a correct choice since our local government has branded those acts as terrorism because their goal is to terrorize the locals. That was necessary to deal with them more efficiently and the insurance problem is an unwanted secundary effect.
He spoke with the insurance company today, and normally, he'd still get 80 % of what he normally gets, 40 % paid by the state, so the problem is not that big, it was just the initial problem of conflicting laws and contracts that caused a problem that no one wanted to have.

 

[kryszcztov]

I watched 2 TV programs tonight ("A vous de juger" and "Envoyé Spécial" on France2, for you Frenchies), about those events. There were politicians (amongst them : Sarkozy), local elected people, a priest, some citizens (young living there, mothers...), and various representatives (employment, associations, etc...). They also interviewed and followed some bands who burnt some cars and trash in the street at night. Never was Islam said by anyone to be one of the problems for those events. So much for the big Muslim conspiracy that some dudes living far from here claim as the truth. BTW it was an interesting watch for those who want to be well informed on the subject. In short : stop watching CNN and Fox News !

 

[Marla_Singer]

I watched 2 TV programs tonight ("A vous de juger" and "Envoyé Spécial" on France2, for you Frenchies), about those events. There were politicians (amongst them : Sarkozy), local elected people, a priest, some citizens (young living there, mothers...), and various representatives (employment, associations, etc...). They also interviewed and followed some bands who burnt some cars and trash in the street at night. Never was Islam said by anyone to be one of the problems for those events. So much for the big Muslim conspiracy that some dudes living far from here claim as the truth. BTW it was an interesting watch for those who want to be well informed on the subject. In short : stop watching CNN and Fox News !

I've found the show interesting... and the two documentaries in Envoyé Spécial were also very interesting.

There wasn't simply Sarkozy in the show, there was also Borloo... and I must say I liked a lot Borloo's comments about the current situation.

 

[Elrohir]

I watched 2 TV programs tonight ("A vous de juger" and "Envoyé Spécial" on France2, for you Frenchies), about those events. There were politicians (amongst them : Sarkozy), local elected people, a priest, some citizens (young living there, mothers...), and various representatives (employment, associations, etc...). They also interviewed and followed some bands who burnt some cars and trash in the street at night. Never was Islam said by anyone to be one of the problems for those events. So much for the big Muslim conspiracy that some dudes living far from here claim as the truth. BTW it was an interesting watch for those who want to be well informed on the subject. In short : stop watching CNN and Fox News !

If you believe Islam has nothing to do with this then you are naive. It's as simple as that.

 

[SonicX]

If you believe Islam has nothing to do with this then you are naive. It's as simple as that.

Islam as a religion has nothing do with it at all, islam as a culture is a different thing. But I wouldn't blame it on the religion, only on the culture that didn't went to extensive differentiation and enlightenment.
Though it's quite a paradox to speak about these things. For northern African and Turkish immigrants, they are often seen as too westernized by the people in their country of origin because of their capitalistic ways, while for us natives, it seems like the people who stayed in those lands are modernizing faster than the immigrants here because of cultural ways.

 

[Urederra]

it's still that way here, just being born here won't earn you the swiss citizenship. actually I thought most european countries still did it like that, obviously I was wrong.

Ronaldo just earned the Spanish citizenship.

 

[Elrohir]

Islam as a religion has nothing do with it at all, islam as a culture is a different thing. But I wouldn't blame it on the religion, only on the culture that didn't went to extensive differentiation and enlightenment.
Though it's quite a paradox to speak about these things. For northern African and Turkish immigrants, they are often seen as too westernized by the people in their country of origin because of their capitalistic ways, while for us natives, it seems like the people who stayed in those lands are modernizing faster than the immigrants here because of cultural ways.

You're right in that the Koran doesn't say "Go forth and burn cars in the Paris suburbs". But the beliefs and violence that are inherent to Islam have added much of the fuel for this violence.

There are reports of these thugs shouting "Allahu Akbar!" in the streets; to ignore who and what these people are and just call them "poor youths" is to ignore the real issue.

 

[Masquerouge]

You're right in that the Koran doesn't say "Go forth and burn cars in the Paris suburbs". But the beliefs and violence that are inherent to Islam have added much of the fuel for this violence.

You disappoint me. I thought you knew better. This is one of the most backward comments I have ever read. Islam is not about violence.

There are reports of these thugs shouting "Allahu Akbar!" in the streets; to ignore who and what these people are and just call them "poor youths" is to ignore the real issue.

Just because a 15-year-old think it is cool to shoot Allahu Akbar while torching a car doesn't mean he's a religious fanatic. These are not religious riots, they are poverty riots.

 

[Marla_Singer]

If you believe Islam has nothing to do with this then you are naive. It's as simple as that.

Knowing that half of rioters aren't muslim, what is naive is actually to believe Islam is the reason of this.

 

[kronic]

You disappoint me. I thought you knew better. This is one of the most backward comments I have ever read. Islam is not about violence.

Propaganda works.

 

[kryszcztov]

If you believe Islam has nothing to do with this then you are naive. It's as simple as that.

Says someone who knows absolutely everything on the issue. I know you'd like to see Islam burning stuff and bombing things everywhere everyday on TV, that would make your day(s), but sorry to disappoint you, this isn't one of the real problems here.

There are reports of these thugs shouting "Allahu Akbar!" in the streets; to ignore who and what these people are and just call them "poor youths" is to ignore the real issue.

Reports from CNN ? They could also shout "I like McDonald's" for a change, and we would blame it on the USA ? So, a few dudes shouted "Allah Akbar" in the street, and that's a whole Muslim insurrection ? You know what ? I also shout it at home when I'm bored... Just for fun !

You could also have watched those French programs where they showed some young guys of whom we couldn't see their faces, speaking about their actions and motives. I didn't hear "Islam" once. I'd suggest you changed the way you 'attack' me on such subjects, because obviously you speak faster than you think (which isn't hard to do).

 

[Atlas14]

Poor Paris, I don't even know what to say.

 

[blackheart]

You're right in that the Koran doesn't say "Go forth and burn cars in the Paris suburbs". But the beliefs and violence that are inherent to Islam have added much of the fuel for this violence.

There are reports of these thugs shouting "Allahu Akbar!" in the streets; to ignore who and what these people are and just call them "poor youths" is to ignore the real issue.

I'm sorry, but say what? This just makes you look more ignorant and less open-minded, I might go as far as to even say prejudice.

 

[Elrohir]

You disappoint me. I thought you knew better. This is one of the most backward comments I have ever read. Islam is not about violence.

Don't make me laugh. Individual Muslims may, and often do choose to be peaceful citizens. But that is not what Islam is founded upon. Have you ever heard of the Banu Qurayza? If you haven't, look them up on Wikipedia, they have a short article on them. To put it ismply, they were a tribe of Medinian Jews Mohammed had slaughtered because they wouldn't declare him a Prophet from God. If you just read some of the Koran then you'd see it quite clearly teaches hate for those who are not Muslims:

Koran 9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

Koran 9:5
"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolators wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."


Koran 9:73
Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their Home: an evil fate.


Koran 22:19-22:23
Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Sclading water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: 'Taste the torment of the Conflagration!'

Etc, etc....I'm sure you see the point. The Koran is filled with verses like this. And before you start whining about context, I've looked at the context, and it's exactly what it looks like: A guidebook for killing non-Muslims.

Just because a 15-year-old think it is cool to shoot Allahu Akbar while torching a car doesn't mean he's a religious fanatic. These are not religious riots, they are poverty riots.

I agree in the sense that these are not religious riots in that not all Muslims are rioting, if you thought I said that then we have a misunderstanding. But to say these riots are simply about class is naive, not only are these guys poor, but they are Muslims and immigrants, or the children or grandchildren of immigrants who never assimilated, and are now fed up with France.

Knowing that half of rioters aren't muslim, what is naive is actually to believe Islam is the reason of this.

Link?