Paris suburbs - Is it starting again?

[Marla_Singer]

Why is this a good thing? Isn't the media's job to report the news. Seems to me that the locations of the violence and its intensity is some vital information. I mean, if I lived in Paris and had to travel through some of these places for work, I would want to know where the violence is. Or better yet, if I LIVED in and around these area's, I'd want to know where the violence was.

What benefit is there in systematically not reporting news? I don't understand.

the situation isn't that dangerous. Nothing happens during daytime and during night time everything is concentrated in a street where rioters provoke anti-riot police. You can even go to Villiers-le-Bel without problem, it's not really a danger zone except during the night time.

Anyway, rioters consider it as some kind of "honour" to make the evening news. They are in rivalry from a district to another, and the district which is in the biggest mess is the "coolest". If media starts comparing the situation between the different districts, they would only fuel that game. Already on youtube and dailymotion, you just need to type "Villiers-le-bel" to get excerpts of evening news showing the riots. Those videos are uploaded by rioters themselves. We talk about them, so they are glad.

Quite frankly, the rioters of this district has grown an insular mentality. They live between themselves and don't really wish to become part of the society. I specifically talk about rioters here, not of people living in those districts in general, the majority of them taking the public transport during 2 hours each day to go to work.

However, the hatred of Sarkozy seems more mainstream over there. Not only kids, but also parents consider Sarkozy as some kind of racist scum with double standards. Also it must be said this point of view isn't limited to those districts. For instance, the students who blocked their universities in the last months also viscerally hate Sarkozy. Clearly, Sarkozy has divided the society in two sides: those who passionately hate him (about 30%), and those who passionately love him (about 45 or 50%).

 

[Merkinball]

Sarkozy is like Ron Paul. He might be a good thing for France, but it seems to me that he's not the best thing for France now, but may have been an absolutely GREAT thing for France before the recession and high unemployments in the immigrant populations became a problem.

Everyone scoffed at me when I said "there's gonna be more riots now." Well... I'll aslo say it again. Once this settles, there will probably be more riots after that.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Gee, a regular Nostradamus. Of course there'll be more riots.

I predict there's going to be an earthquake as well.

 

[Kosez]

Crush them - arrest anybody who commits an offence, jail anybody who attacks a policeman and shoot anybody who fires at a policeman.

What cannot be accomplished by the use of force can be accomplished by the use of even greater force.

Soviets knew that very well back in 1968, didn't they?

Violence causes only more violence. True, governments can deliver enough violence to crush any opposing violence. But only for some time. If you don't cure the disease...

 

[angeleyes]

Soviets knew that very well back in 1968, didn't they?

......

 

[Merkinball]

Gee, a regular Nostradamus. Of course there'll be more riots.

I predict there's going to be an earthquake as well.

I understand, you didn't get the point, and felt like another senseless flame. But if you'd like, I'll slowly connect the dots for you. Unless of course, you're just purposefully ignoring the point...

 

[Elrohir]

I think you just stumbled upon the new slogan for Parisian travelagents.

Visit Paris! It's a riot!

Remember the LA riots? People were killed. People don't get killed in French riots.
All I'm saying is that it's not as bad as the media makes it

They don't?

BBC from the 2005 riots
FRENCH RIOTS
One man killed
5,873 cars torched
1,500 people arrested
17 people sentenced
120 police and firefighters injured
Figures as of 8 November

Sounds like a pretty serious affair to me. From these riots alone, eighty police have been injured. That sounds fairly bad to me.

 

[Masquerouge]

They don't?

BBC from the 2005 riots
FRENCH RIOTS
One man killed
5,873 cars torched
1,500 people arrested
17 people sentenced
120 police and firefighters injured
Figures as of 8 November

Sounds like a pretty serious affair to me. From these riots alone, eighty police have been injured. That sounds fairly bad to me.

Ok, one man got killed, my bad. I didn't know.

I'm not saying they were not serious, I'm saying that they were on the whole less violent (to people) than other riots, example being the LA riots.

 

[Italian Celtic]

Crush them - arrest anybody who commits an offence, jail anybody who attacks a policeman and shoot anybody who fires at a policeman.

What cannot be accomplished by the use of force can be accomplished by the use of even greater force.

Soviets knew that very well back in 1968, didn't they?

Violence causes only more violence. True, governments can deliver enough violence to crush any opposing violence. But only for some time. If you don't cure the disease...

i've a better plan
1) capture and deport all rioters in Greenland
2) the cold and the hunger will kill them so we haven't committed murder (nature have killed them)

what do you think?

 

[Elrohir]

Ok, one man got killed, my bad. I didn't know.

I'm not saying they were not serious, I'm saying that they were on the whole less violent (to people) than other riots, example being the LA riots.

The difference being the US has a riot of that level maybe once a decade. You guys seem to have these every year, like as a way to usher in the holiday shopping season.

What do you think Masq? What should the government do in this circumstance?

 

[Masquerouge]

The difference being the US has a riot of that level maybe once a decade. You guys seem to have these every year, like as a way to usher in the holiday shopping season.

No, we do not. We had big ones in 2005, and the car-burning thing for new year's eve are not riots. What I'm trying to dispel here is the impression given by the media than France riots every year. That's not true.
And as Marla said, "riots", when they happen, are very localized.

What I don't get is that even though every single French person here is constantly repeating (and that since 2005) that the riots are not as bad and as frequent as the media make it appear, people still want to believe it's constant civil war.
Why would we lie to you? Do you think we all get together on secret forums and discuss what our propaganda should be?
(not addressed to you particularly Elrohir )

What do you think Masq? What should the government do in this circumstance?

In the short term, apply the law, and bring law enforcement back into the banlieues.

In the long term, get rid of banlieues.

I don't expect an easy and fast solution though. Economical problems mixed with immigration issues are usually not easily solved.

 

[Elrohir]

No, we do not. We had big ones in 2005, and the car-burning thing for new year's eve are not riots. What I'm trying to dispel here is the impression given by the media than France riots every year. That's not true.
And as Marla said, "riots", when they happen, are very localized.

What I don't get is that even though every single French person here is constantly repeating (and that since 2005) that the riots are not as bad and as frequent as the media make it appear, people still want to believe it's constant civil war.
Why would we lie to you? Do you think we all get together on secret forums and discuss what our propaganda should be?
(not addressed to you particularly Elrohir )

I don't think you're lying, but I think you are trying to minimize the severity of the events because the worse the riots, the worse France looks. What I don't know is whether your minimalist account is more accurate than the media's portrayal.

In the short term, apply the law, and bring law enforcement back into the banlieues.

In the long term, get rid of banlieues.

I don't expect an easy and fast solution though. Economical problems mixed with immigration issues are usually not easily solved.

"Banlieues" are basically ghetto's, or low income apartments and houses, right? (If I'm getting this wrong, let me know) How do you propose to get rid of them? They have existed on the outskirts of every major city for years. Rome had them. Why do you think Paris can not have them?

 

[Fëanor]

Ok, one man got killed, my bad. I didn't know.

I'm not saying they were not serious, I'm saying that they were on the whole less violent (to people) than other riots, example being the LA riots.

If i heard it right on the news 7 policemen are in hospital in critical conditions after being hit with by shotgun pellets

i've a better plan
1) capture and deport all rioters in Greenland
2) the cold and the hunger will kill them so we haven't committed murder (nature have killed them)

what do you think?

Why not build labor facilities in greenland or antarica? they wont be able to say that there is high unemployment any longer

But in all seriousness, i think that these people are terrorists and should be face trial as such, also the French should send the regular army in

 

[Masquerouge]

I don't think you're lying, but I think you are trying to minimize the severity of the events because the worse the riots, the worse France looks. What I don't know is whether your minimalist account is more accurate than the media's portrayal.

I guess we're in a deadlock then because my impression is that I'm trying to tone down the exaggerations I read from some posters here...
"yearly riots" and the like.

Note that I do think the situation is serious and there is a huge issue facing France today...

"Banlieues" are basically ghetto's, or low income apartments and houses, right? (If I'm getting this wrong, let me know) How do you propose to get rid of them? They have existed on the outskirts of every major city for years. Rome had them. Why do you think Paris can not have them?

I do not think that grouping poor people together in areas that are ugly and where the police do not go is a good idea.

Other than that, I just don't have the skills or knowledge to propose a technical, feasible solution to that problem. I wouldn't be here if I could

 

[Pannonius]

Shoot some and deport the rest to the Devil's Island!
Seriously, criminal behaviour and vandalism shouldn't be tolerated. Don't give me that "it isn't their fault" PC crap.

 

[Elrohir]

I guess we're in a deadlock then because my impression is that I'm trying to tone down the exaggerations I read from some posters here...
"yearly riots" and the like.

Note that I do think the situation is serious and there is a huge issue facing France today...

*Shrugs*

I do not think that grouping poor people together in areas that are ugly and where the police do not go is a good idea.

Other than that, I just don't have the skills or knowledge to propose a technical, feasible solution to that problem. I wouldn't be here if I could

But what do you do with them? You can't deport them all. Moving them to another neighborhood will probably end up changing nothing.

If you had the skills or knowledge to propose such a change, you probably wouldn't be in the government anyway. Assuming the French government is anything like ours.

 

[raen]

I think also violence from authorities is not the solution. they must go to the main problem:

- Why are they doing this?
- Ask them directly, do you feel good? give you pleasure? do you dont think there are people out there that do alot to have a car a house, an happy life and you can destroy it.
- want they want or need?
- Do you need support?
etc...

If any violence is used is too block, use tatics or so to block them some how, there so many tatics of war, and none more peaceful...

My concerns Marla and friends.

 

[Italian Celtic]

Why not build labor facilities in greenland or antarica? they wont be able to say that there is high unemployment any longer

we are exagerating
i suggest to build an artic-guantanamo without torture
cold and hunger are the better torture

But in all seriousness, i think that these people are terrorists and should be face trial as such, also the French should send the regular army in

It would be another Iraq

 

[Italian Celtic]

Shoot some and deport the rest to the Devil's Island!
Seriously, criminal behaviour and vandalism shouldn't be tolerated. Don't give me that "it isn't their fault" PC crap.

Devil's island = England

 

[Pannonius]

Devil's island = England

Good one!