Pastor on trial

[abradley]

Yeah! Orthodox legions are growing day by day, Holy Crusade is imminent!

Spoiler :

For the photo, suspicions confirmed.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

'Happy Holidays' is a uniquely American expression, though (I dunno, maybe it's used in like Canada or somewhere too). And internationally I'd say it's generally associated with attempts not to offend those who don't want to mention Christmas, particularly given Americans don't really seem to have any holidays to be happy about. The reality might be quite different, but the phrase has baggage.

Lots of baggage, going back to at least 1942 as it does.

 

[Evie]

The holiday season includes, besides Christmas, at least one major christian holiday (Epiphany/Three King's day), one very major western (mostly) secular holiday with notable ties to religion (and definitely celebrated by religious people), and multiple lesser feast days that are more important to certain subset of western cultures than others.

EVEN if we were to ignore all the other non-Christian holidays, "Happy holidays" is a much more sensible - and generous! - well-wish than Merry Christmas since it covers more than just one day

 

[ori]

'Happy Holidays' is a uniquely American expression, though (I dunno, maybe it's used in like Canada or somewhere too). And internationally I'd say it's generally associated with attempts not to offend those who don't want to mention Christmas, particularly given Americans don't really seem to have any holidays to be happy about. The reality might be quite different, but the phrase has baggage.

I hear "Schöne Feiertage" around here all the time - of course it would be weird greeting people in Germany with "Happy Holidays" - but the German version is quite common. I don't really see it as uniquely American, though I am sure it has something to do with not wanting to offend people not celebrating Christmas.

 

[Evie]

Same with "Joyeuses fêtes!" in French. It's excessively common in the French world, and as far as I know has been around for centuries.

 

[chijohnaok]

Weren't teen FB/Twitter posters arrested for 'threatening' to beat/kill Obama? I am it is not very likely they would be able to do so, even if we assume they would try..

Well, I don't think their arrest was likely based on their actions being a "hate crime".

Someone living in the US shouldn't, under any circumstance, ever threaten the President of the United States. Even if your offense didn't rise to the level of a crime the Secret Service/FBI could probably crawl so far up your ass that an outstanding jaywalking ticket from 10 years ago would trip you up and your chances of passing a background screening for a job would be screwed for the next 10 yrs or so....;-)

 

[chijohnaok]

I hear "Schöne Feiertage" around here all the time - of course it would be weird greeting people in Germany with "Happy Holidays" - but the German version is quite common. I don't really see it as uniquely American, though I am sure it has something to do with not wanting to offend people not celebrating Christmas.

I don't live in Germany so you would know better than I do, but in Germany some (or maybe even many) people tend to celebrate erste, zweite, dritte und vierte Advent and then also several days of Christmas, plus Drei Könige Tag, so even Christians in Germany have multiple Feiertage. In the US even most devout Christians do not celebrate the days of Advent like some Germans do; there is no observance for the 2nd day Christmas (other than to go back to the stores to exchange lame gifts or clothes for sizes that fit) and generally the Greek Orthodox celebrate 3 Kings day as Christmas...it's not so much a big deal for non-Orthodox Christians.

 

[Zkribbler]

Tim is exactly right. I've been through many decades of Christmas and in every one "Merry Christmas," or "Happy Holidays," or "Seasons Greetings," were all frequently used.

IIRC, at the end of "A Night Before Christmas" Santa says "Happy Christmas to all and to all a good night."

According to https://www.poets.org/poetsorg/poem/visit-st-nicholas, you are correct!

 

[Evie]

Even without the various days of Advent, Epiphany, etc...

That STILL leaves not one but *two* hyper-major holidays (that every Christiain and lots of everyone else celebrate) within a week of each other in the United States.

 

[Zkribbler]

...and a Festivus for the rest of us!

 

[EnglishEdward]

Instead, the prosecution focused on this line from the sermon: "People say there are good Muslims in Britain - that may be so - but I don't trust them."

First of all the quoted sentence is quite ambiguous about who the "them" are!

It could be any of:

(a) the people who say there are good muslims
(b) the good muslims in Britain
(c) muslims in Britain in general
(d) muslims in general


In any case saying that you do not trust any logical grouping of people is not
the same as saying you hate people or encouraging hatred against that group.

Consider the logic of this:

"People say there are good geologists in Britain - that may be so -
but I don't trust them."

Am I, as a geology graduate, entitled to sue any one who says this?

 

[Kyriakos]

^ No, they likely meant they do not trust those who claim there are good geologists in Britain

 

[ori]

I don't live in Germany so you would know better than I do, but in Germany some (or maybe even many) people tend to celebrate erste, zweite, dritte und vierte Advent and then also several days of Christmas, plus Drei Könige Tag, so even Christians in Germany have multiple Feiertage. In the US even most devout Christians do not celebrate the days of Advent like some Germans do; there is no observance for the 2nd day Christmas (other than to go back to the stores to exchange lame gifts or clothes for sizes that fit) and generally the Greek Orthodox celebrate 3 Kings day as Christmas...it's not so much a big deal for non-Orthodox Christians.

For Advent though wishing happy holidays is rather rare - it just starts the week before Christmas roughly and mostly just the last few days prior. So that does not really explain usage.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

For Advent though wishing happy holidays is rather rare - it just starts the week before Christmas roughly and mostly just the last few days prior. So that does not really explain usage.

There is no "explaining usage" for meaningless noises of greeting or well wishing. "Hello", "Merry Christmas", "good night", "have a nice day", "happy holidays", whatever. They follow no rules of usage, they are just interchangeable comfort noises. Thankfully we developed them, or we would be forced to sniff each other all the time like the rest of the mammals.

 

[ori]

actually they do follow more or less strict societal rules - two weeks from now "Merry Christmas" will be quite out of place - good night typically depends on time etc. Now divining what types of rules govern which greeting is appropriate and which is not may or may not interest you - still it is quite interesting to me at least to see such greetings change with time and/or culture.

 

[Borachio]

<nvm>

 

[abradley]

Long ago, when in Baveria:

Grüß Gott (German pronunciation: [&#609;&#641;y&#720;s &#712;&#609;&#596;t]; literally '(may) God greet (you)') is a greeting, less often a farewell, in the Upper German Sprachraum especially in Bavaria, Franconia, Swabia, Austria and South Tyrol.

The greeting was publicized in the 19th century by the Catholic clergy and along with its variants has long been the most common greeting form in Southern Germany and Austria. The salutation often receives a sarcastic response from Northern (and thus mainly Protestant) Germans such as "If I see Him" ("Wenn ich ihn sehe") or "Hopefully not too soon" ("Hoffentlich nicht so bald").

Grüß Gott is the shortened form of both (Es) Grüße dich Gott and its plural (Es) Grüße euch Gott ('may God greet you'). The verb grüßen originally had a meaning similar to segnen ('to bless'), although it now means 'to greet'. The essential meaning of grüß (dich) Gott is therefore 'God bless you'. Such a religious expression in a greeting only exists in a few countries. For example, people wish one another a simple 'good day' in Poland (dzie&#324; dobry), Spain (buenos días), and Portugal (bom dia), while in Gaelic-speaking Ireland the popular greeting is Dia dhuit ('God with you'), similar to the English goodbye, a contraction of God be with ye;[1] today, goodbye has a less obviously religious meaning. Also similar to the Catalan formal expression Adéu-siau ("Be with God", in archaic Catalan). A religious origin is still obvious in French adieu, Spanish adiós, Italian addio, Portuguese adeus, and Catalan adéu ("To God", probably a contraction of "I entrust you to God"). In Finland, a religious group named laestadians says "Jumalan terve" (greet God).

Like many other greetings, Grüß Gott can range in meaning from deeply emotional to casual or perfunctory. Popular variations are Grüß dich (Gott) and its plural form Grüß euch (Gott), literally meaning 'Greet you (God)'. The greeting's pronunciation varies with the region, with, for example, Grüß dich sometimes shortened to Grüß di (the variation Grüß di Gott may be heard in some places). In Bavaria and Austria griaß di and griaß eich are commonly heard, although their Standard German equivalents are not uncommon either. A common farewell analogous to grüß Gott is pfiat' di Gott, a contraction of "Behüte dich Gott" ('God protect you'), which itself is not common at all. This is likewise shortened this to pfiat' di/eich or, if the person is addressed formally[2] pfia Gott in Altbayern, Austria, and South Tyrol (Italy).

In its standard German form, grüß Gott is mostly stressed on the second word and in many places is used not only in everyday life, but is also common in the official communications of the aforementioned states. Use of the greeting guten Tag ('good day') is less prevalent, but there are those who dislike grüß Gott on account of its religious nature. In Bavaria, guten Tag is considered prim and distant and sometimes leads to misunderstandings; however, if the person addressed is from Northern Germany, it can be seen as a friendly gesture.

Is it still common?

 

[Borachio]

"People say there are good Muslims in Britain - that may be so - but I don't trust them."

First of all the quoted sentence is quite ambiguous about who the "them" are!

I suppose strictly speaking you're right.

But my understanding from it is that he doesn't trust any Muslims. And this makes sense, I think, especially since he then goes on to utterly vilify Islam.

 

[Silurian]

People should take into account that this proscecution is taking place in Northern Ireland

From BBC

A woman whose County Antrim home was damaged in a petrol bomb attack said they were targeted because her husband "is a Muslim".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34840896

From Belfast Telegraph

A paint bomb was thrown at houses during a series of sectarian attacks in the Short Strand area of east Belfast in the early hours of Sunday.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...ttacks-on-homes-in-east-belfast-31335637.html

A couple in their 20s and their baby were in the Islandarragh Road property at the time but were not hurt when arsonists set their car alight just before 2.30am.

The flames spread to the house causing significant damage to the front door, windows and guttering. 'Taigs Out' was daubed in large lettering on the gable wall.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...ycastle-family-for-arson-attack-34130155.html

From UTV

The Ballytyrone Orange hall was destroyed in an arson attack on Thursday night.

Fire fighters attended the scene on the Creenagh Road in Loughgall just before midnight.

http://www.u.tv/News/2015/07/03/Sectarian-bigots-behind-Orange-attack-dFM-40290

More people have died, in Northern Ireland, because incitement by people like McConnell than died on 911.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

actually they do follow more or less strict societal rules - two weeks from now "Merry Christmas" will be quite out of place - good night typically depends on time etc. Now divining what types of rules govern which greeting is appropriate and which is not may or may not interest you - still it is quite interesting to me at least to see such greetings change with time and/or culture.

Rules based on circumstances are interesting. I have one friend in particular that I correspond with and we always greet each other with "Heya!", which anyone who wants is free to guess about. But even though appropriate greetings vary with circumstances, trying to apply such deep meaning to them, like "oh, you use this greeting instead of that so you must be a liberal democrat desperately seeking PCness so as not to offend" is absurd.