Patch update on the Firaxis livestream

[Olodune]

I don't know if this was a coincidence or a result of the patch but the game I just played had more diplomatic tension than in my previous RT games. ARC actually landed only 6 tiles away and of course got made for being so close to me which led to war.

My first game under the new patch has a very similar story. I'm finding it harder to passively make friends, and got landed on by KP. This led to a credible attack at turn 90. Maybe just random noise, but this is the first BERT game where I actually will need more than 3 units.

Fun game - I will get a first hand look at the new Warscore system.

Spoiler :

Tooltips on MAFW disagree with the patch notes (15% instead of 20%). Marvel quest carry-over bug is still there.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

My first game under the new patch has a very similar story. I'm finding it harder to passively make friends, and got landed on by KP.

Yeah, I also noticed in my game that the AIs were not passively fawning over with respect like in some previous games. I had some AIs sent me positive respect but also some that persisted in hating me. So I think the devs might have balanced the respect stuff so that the game is not a runaway of a positive respect. Of course, I was playing on Soyuz and I was at the bottom of the leaderboard which tends to get the AIs to gang up on you. But definitely a more tense game.

 

[Olodune]

Here's the first introduced bug I found.

I have conservation areas (+1 science from strategics), but after researching Alien Sciences, no more science from Xenomass (tile towards the top of the picture)

Spoiler :

 

[jlc22]

Has anyone tried playing with PAC yet since the patch? I started a game last night and for some reason I wasn't getting the free 1 turn wonder. But I only tried it in once city (not my capital) so tonight I'll try again in some more cities and post screenshots if it is a bug. Just wondering if anyone else has came across this too.

 

[Chaleb]

PAC's Abilty doesn't affect the wonder that gives you spies or Victory wonders, so check for that.

 

[Maximus_Light]

Well, if nothing else this just gave me a great way to win wars with spies and just defend myself in the mean time.
(hehehe, Kavithar just lost all her cities to me via espionage while I maintained a land force just large enough to hold them off, I literally conquered another civ in a defensive war without ever killing a civilian)

 

[Azem.Ocram]

I like Spoils of War much, much, MUCH more than early Rising Tide's prepatch implementation! I even like it more than Civ5's style (that Vanilla Rising Tide used) and my own complicated idea for a fix. Keep up the great work!

I really wanted the cap for Strategic Networks to be in the 5 digit range with a lower interest rate. Oh well.

 

[poom3619]

I think the minimum turns to peace is designed to prevent the player from exploiting the war score mechanic. If you don't have a minimum turns then it would be too easy for a player to set up their army, declare war, take an AI city in one turn, sue for peace immediately and reap a big reward, before the AI even had a chance to defend itself. Rince and repeat. And since you are always waiting until your military is perfectly positioned to win in 1 turn before you DoW, the AI will never have a chance to defend itself. With the minimum turn, the player has to at least defend their holdings before reaping the rewards of the war score and the AI at least has an opportunity to counter attack.

He didn't really say that mod it out as only option, you know.

As warscore supposely tell us how war is going. I can imagine the system where AI fight war with you for 5 turns and then, if the war is even or in their favor. They won't negotiate for 5 turn. But if war went badly for them, represent by increasing growth rate of war score difference in favor of their enemy. Then they might consider to open for negotiate immeadiaty (5 turn since war) or maybe another 2-3 turn (7-8 since war) if they think they could turn the tides.

It is my vision for his "get fixed".

 

[jlc22]

PAC's Abilty doesn't affect the wonder that gives you spies or Victory wonders, so check for that.

It was one of the artifact wonders, the ability worked for the regular wonders. I was still annoyed though!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[EpicWestern]

Like prepatch, I'm really liking the new system and ideas but I'm not really a huge fan of the execution. The peace terms offered are too generous. My last game I was ARC and played totally carelessly, not building a proper navy. I should have lost, but managed to end one war by shipping just ~80 energy and ~80 capital, and I ended a different war by merely giving away one mid-level tech.

 

[Olodune]

Like prepatch, I'm really liking the new system and ideas but I'm not really a huge fan of the execution. The peace terms offered are too generous. My last game I was ARC and played totally carelessly, not building a proper navy. I should have lost, but managed to end one war by shipping just ~80 energy and ~80 capital, and I ended a different war by merely giving away one mid-level tech.

I'd say it is too generous in the other direction. After taking just one city I'm being offered a pile of cities, tech, and energy (by one city I do mean the KP capital, Mandira). The interesting implication is that proactive war might accelerate peaceful victories in some situations.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

They should make the war score earned for a city depend on its combat value minus the war score that would be needed to Buy it.
Or perhaps cities conquered during the war still need to be 'bought' like others.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I'd say it is too generous in the other direction. After taking just one city I'm being offered a pile of cities, tech, and energy (by one city I do mean the KP capital, Mandira). The interesting implication is that proactive war might accelerate peaceful victories in some situations.

Same here. Taking just one ARC city, gave me enough war score that I was able to force ARC to surrender 2 cities for peace. I took the 2 cities and razed them. The net result is that I was able to effectively take 3 cities away from ARC by only taking 1 city.

 

[Olodune]

Same here. Taking just one ARC city, gave me enough war score that I was able to force ARC to surrender 2 cities for peace. I took the 2 cities and razed them. The net result is that I was able to effectively take 3 cities away from ARC by only taking 1 city.

Yeah. A size 9 city was ~450 Warscore at around t105. I had ~1k from annihilating the KP army and taking Mandira. It is actually similar to what she would have surrendered before the patch - if she would have ever accepted the forced peace.

Not that it actually matters too much - I could have captured those cities myself in ~5 turns. But this way I can take the cities and use the extra turns to head over to PAC with my troops - with the simple goal of gaining more War Spoils. I'm not sure what to think, yet, about the new system.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Yeah. A size 9 city was ~450 Warscore at around t105. I had ~1k from annihilating the KP army and taking Mandira. It is actually similar to what she would have surrendered before the patch - if she would have ever accepted the forced peace.

Interestingly, I got the AI to give up 2 cities which is exactly what would have happened pre-patch. I asked for 2 cities because it was better than the alternative which was taking a bunch of cheap harmony techs which I did not want since I was Purity. The big difference is that the system lets the player customize the peace terms. Even though, in many instances, the player may still pick the same peace terms that the old war score would have picked automatically, I still think it is a lot better to give the player the choice rather than simply force peace terms on the player. Also, by giving the player the choice of peace terms, it does fix the issue of peace terms that the AI cannot accept (giving up their last city). So, at least now, in the situation where the AI is down to their last city and the player has a crushing war score differential, the player can demand techs and energy and successfully make peace. So the system does fix the endless war problem.

 

[omniclast]

It was one of the artifact wonders, the ability worked for the regular wonders. I was still annoyed though!

It's never worked on artifact wonders either as they are classed as national wonders like the spy agency. It's so that in mp more than one player can get each one.

 

[omniclast]

Interestingly, I got the AI to give up 2 cities which is exactly what would have happened pre-patch. I asked for 2 cities because it was better than the alternative which was taking a bunch of cheap harmony techs which I did not want since I was Purity. The big difference is that the system lets the player customize the peace terms. Even though, in many instances, the player may still pick the same peace terms that the old war score would have picked automatically, I still think it is a lot better to give the player the choice rather than simply force peace terms on the player. Also, by giving the player the choice of peace terms, it does fix the issue of peace terms that the AI cannot accept (giving up their last city). So, at least now, in the situation where the AI is down to their last city and the player has a crushing war score differential, the player can demand techs and energy and successfully make peace. So the system does fix the endless war problem.

Did the AI ever reject a deal you offered, if it was within the war score? Are they forced to accept terms as long as they're entertaining peace offers? I can't seem to get them to ever actually entertain offers in the first place so I haven't been able to check.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Did the AI ever reject a deal you offered, if it was within the war score?

No, I think the AI has always accepted my terms.

Are they forced to accept terms as long as they're entertaining peace offers? I can't seem to get them to ever actually entertain offers in the first place so I haven't been able to check.

Not sure if the AI is literally forced to accept terms. But if the AI is considering peace and your peace terms are withing the war score score differential, the AI should accept most if not all the time. At least that is my experience.

I usually just wait a bit if the AI says they are not considering terms. Usually, after 5-10 turns, the AI will offer me terms. If I don't like the terms, I click "no", exit diplo, and then cick on the leader head and offer peace, the war spoils screen will pop up and I can draft different terms. I think it might help if the AI likes you. In my experience, if I get the positive respect messages from the AI that I am at war with, then generally a few turns later, I can make peace. I think it also helps to stop fighting and pull back your troops. That always works for me to get the AI to eventually to come to the peace table.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Not sure if the AI is literally forced to accept terms. But if the AI is considering peace and your peace terms are withing the war score score differential, the AI should accept most if not all the time. At least that is my experience.

Yeah, I got that impression, too. Never saw them refuse once they are willing to make peace. Looks like the check whether they are willing to settle or not is now made before they know the terms.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Looks like the check whether they are willing to settle or not is now made before they know the terms.

It might seem to be a bad implementation but I think it actually makes sense now that the game has an actual system (war score + war spoils) that quantifies the peace terms. If the AI is losing badly, thanks to the war score, it knows the value of the stuff it will have to give up. So if the AI determines that it is ok with giving up that quantity of stuff then it makes sense that it would agree to the player's demands even though it does not know the specifics of the peace terms. And if the AI is winning, it gets to offer peace terms and the player is free to accept or decline. So that works. Lastly, if the war score differential is 0 or near zero then neither side can give up anything of value anyway. So, I think the system works well from this point of view.