Bino
Warlord
A quick question, should i put back the original dll file Solver released before applying the new patch?
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Patch v3.13 change list
- Thread starter alexman
- Start date
- Status
Roland Johansen
Deity
It will be overwritten when you apply the new patch so it doesn't matter which file you have there.
Bino
Warlord
Thank you for the info Roland! As soon as i'll be back from Ramses land i'll patch! 
marioflag
History Addict
I agree about the fact that changes to modern naval units doesn't seem very well thought.
Attack Submarine with 30 strenght become too much powerful considered they are invisible to most units, they have 50% withdrawal chance.
Destroyer become a lot more useless considered they aren't anymore a counter to subs.Missile Cruisers are also a lot weakened by this change, we just have a modern naval warfare in which attack subs are just overpowered.
The problem related to Destroyer and Stealth Destroyer is not also fixed.
This solution doesn't seem really optimal, having Destroyers not obsolete with Attack Destroyers would have been probably a better solution.
In any case i's a really good and huge patch.
Attack Submarine with 30 strenght become too much powerful considered they are invisible to most units, they have 50% withdrawal chance.
Destroyer become a lot more useless considered they aren't anymore a counter to subs.Missile Cruisers are also a lot weakened by this change, we just have a modern naval warfare in which attack subs are just overpowered.
The problem related to Destroyer and Stealth Destroyer is not also fixed.
This solution doesn't seem really optimal, having Destroyers not obsolete with Attack Destroyers would have been probably a better solution.
In any case i's a really good and huge patch.
MrCynical
Deity
Dutchking said:
Yes, if any civ attempts to draft a unit when they have Rocketry but not assembly line under the current patches the game crashes. Since this can happen with the AI drafting it's behind quite a lot of confusing crash bugs.
The naval changes are going to cause some irritation, since the attack sub is now overpowered and lacks a counter unit. A far simpler fix would have been to remove the upgrade path from destroyer to stealth destroyer, or to fix the stealth destroyer AI.
bonafide11
Worker
So there's no gameplay changes to airships??
IIRC AI will not spend as much on Espionage. But, are there any other changes I missed which will reduce Spy Spam? The relentless poisoning of water supplies? I mean, really, when was the last time you ever heard of a city's water supply being poisoned in real life. Yet it's a regular occurence in BtS.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
the problem with the naval units now is that each unit is its own counter
The only counter to Attack subs is Attack Subs stacked with MC/Battle
The only counter to Steath Destroyers is Stealth Destroyers stacked with MC/Battle
The only Counter for Missile Cruisers/Battleships is MC/Battleships
It should be something like
Battleship/MC>Destroyer/Stealth Destroyer>Attack Subs/Subs> Batt./MC
I'd say the Subs need a bonus v. 'Capital ships' = Battleships+MC +(Carrier)
Then just make the Subs Weaker, and give Destroyers/Stealth Destroyers the Ability to see them. and give MC the Ability to see Stealth Destroyers (and restore Attack subs to original stats)
Option 2 would be
Battle>Destroyers>Subs+Attack Subs>Batt.
changes to
MC>Subs+attack Subs>SD>MC
Give MC the ability to see subs(and Subs don't get bonus v. them.. or give thema a bonus v. Subs), but give Stealth Destroyers a bonus v. MC (and let Attack subs see Steath Destroyers)
Possibly give NO units the ability to see Stealth Destroyers, so they can only be defended against not attacked
as for the graphic idea, I think that is simply showing that the U-Boat has the same Strength as a Nuclear Sub so an upgrade is involved that doesn't cost any money.. once you get Missiles, the UBoats are replaced with the Missile carrying subs.
The only counter to Attack subs is Attack Subs stacked with MC/Battle
The only counter to Steath Destroyers is Stealth Destroyers stacked with MC/Battle
The only Counter for Missile Cruisers/Battleships is MC/Battleships
It should be something like
Battleship/MC>Destroyer/Stealth Destroyer>Attack Subs/Subs> Batt./MC
I'd say the Subs need a bonus v. 'Capital ships' = Battleships+MC +(Carrier)
Then just make the Subs Weaker, and give Destroyers/Stealth Destroyers the Ability to see them. and give MC the Ability to see Stealth Destroyers (and restore Attack subs to original stats)
Option 2 would be
Battle>Destroyers>Subs+Attack Subs>Batt.
changes to
MC>Subs+attack Subs>SD>MC
Give MC the ability to see subs(and Subs don't get bonus v. them.. or give thema a bonus v. Subs), but give Stealth Destroyers a bonus v. MC (and let Attack subs see Steath Destroyers)
Possibly give NO units the ability to see Stealth Destroyers, so they can only be defended against not attacked
as for the graphic idea, I think that is simply showing that the U-Boat has the same Strength as a Nuclear Sub so an upgrade is involved that doesn't cost any money.. once you get Missiles, the UBoats are replaced with the Missile carrying subs.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
Change list said:
I certainly hope this means Firaxis will get it to look & work like it does in the HOF mod. However I would have thought they would have used words like 'improved' or 'corrected' rather than 'removed' if that was the case.
Great change list, though airships are not addressed, and naval combat is all screwed up as others have noted. Still, overall, a fantastic list of changes that address alot of issues I've seen. Looks to be a job well done.
Venger
Venger
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Seems to hit most of the big issues, with only a few exceptions. If it corrects the long wait between turn after 1850AD I pleased! 
(OT) Alexman, were you known as Alexfrog in another forum? Sorry had to ask.
JosEPh
(OT) Alexman, were you known as Alexfrog in another forum? Sorry had to ask.
JosEPh
DWOLF
Death Before Dishonor
Maybe I missed it but will the the "Dead Units Coming Back to Life" graphix problem be fixed?
Ghost Ranger
Prince
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 357
This should be put on the front page...
bonafide11
Worker
Disappointments:
-Still no counter to airships until rocketry
-Global Warming is still the worst part of the game
-The useless corporations are still useless...
Others?
-Still no counter to airships until rocketry
-Global Warming is still the worst part of the game
-The useless corporations are still useless...
Others?
I'm waiting this 3.13 to buy BTS but I'm confused about ships.
It seems that Fireaxians have deeply understimated the essential role of Navy but this patch seems to have done something about it,let's see how much.
Cause I'm a bit ******** Is there any gentle guy among you who can answer these few questions ? Thanks in advance
1 ) could you please summarize a bit the big picture of the Navy with 3.13 without going into complicated mathematic rules or scissor-rock-paper examples ?
2 ) are we still in time to suggest them a further fix or are we too late ?
3 ) can the Navy fight ( 100 % of damage capability ) against planes and viceversa ?
4 ) why a WW II era submarine is still absent ?
5 ) can subs sink everything swimming or is is still present a deep understimation of Navy above all the most lethal modern submarines ?
Thanks really a lot !
It seems that Fireaxians have deeply understimated the essential role of Navy but this patch seems to have done something about it,let's see how much.
Cause I'm a bit ******** Is there any gentle guy among you who can answer these few questions ? Thanks in advance
1 ) could you please summarize a bit the big picture of the Navy with 3.13 without going into complicated mathematic rules or scissor-rock-paper examples ?
2 ) are we still in time to suggest them a further fix or are we too late ?
3 ) can the Navy fight ( 100 % of damage capability ) against planes and viceversa ?
4 ) why a WW II era submarine is still absent ?
5 ) can subs sink everything swimming or is is still present a deep understimation of Navy above all the most lethal modern submarines ?
Thanks really a lot !
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
Not sure about the other questions. This existing patch has been finished so there won't be any further changes to it. Whether or not there will be a patch after this one is unknown.
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