I think we should raze all cottages, but pholkhero could confirm this. Good goal is to head towards Alphabet and try to steal Construction ASAP. We have a good chance on taking Boudica or Julius down with catapults and jumbos.
That barb city doesn't look like worth taking... Cultural pressure and maintainance seem to be too much.
also, why did you settle the GSpy? I thought the spy was used from the beginning to drop the Esp bomb on a nearby AI and steal mucho tech from them, or am i missing something on the Espionage economy??
great turns otherwise, but i agree with Meiz ~ though we need cities, that barb city would be too much right now.
I agree on taking it to Boudica, esp now that's she's going after one of "the poor." W/some cats for backup, as long as we've got a few extra to suicide on each city, we could do it w/just vultures and not wait for jumbos, too.
finally, a point of order on the rules, or rather a question: as I mentioned, I'd like war to be limited so what if we can only aggressively (pre-emptively?) war until we get up to 9 cities or something similar??
roster
pholkhero
Refar >> just played Meiz >> UP NOW and has it
r_rolo >> on deck
pawelo
Ralph_Jackson
also, why did you settle the GSpy? I thought the spy was used from the beginning to drop the Esp bomb on a nearby AI and steal mucho tech from them, or am i missing something on the Espionage economy??
In our case, this was much better choise in long term. We are not restricted for trading techs so there is no need for super early EP's. Concentrating our EP's on top researcher allows us to steal everything we need
Turn 1
Whip a worker in Nottinghan for 3 pop. Also increase science slider to 70% so we can get Pottery next turn.
Turn 2
Pottery in and most of our builds are changed to granaries.
Barbarian city gets captured by Charlemagne. Doesn't matter, crappy spot and it just means more maintainance for him
Vicky's research is probably going to get hit hard by Boudica, so I'm not worried to make this trade. Slider gets moved to full EP's.
Research is set to Aesthestics. AI's seem to delay researching it so we have a good change on wonders. And it has good trade value. Only 28 turns to go
Turn 3
Another trade.
Turn 4
One more trade. I'm not too worried about WFYABTA limits on this game as tech stealing isn't counted.
Whip worker in Loxley for 2 pop.
Turn 8
Our fellow asks little aid, this is agreed of course.
Turn 9
Boudica converts to Buddhism which is very good for us. Charlemagne for example doesn't seem too pleased
Turn 10
Time to ask repay from our fellower. Julius is reasonable and agrees.
Whip granary in Gisborne for 2 pop and in Forest Camp for 1 pop.
I notice that Charlemagne just started reseaching Construction!
Turn 11
Now also Frederic turns to Hinduism. Let's hope that another religion spreads to us soon.
Turn 13
We get Great Prophet who can bulb Theology for us. I strongly suggest we do that.
Capital can start pumping spies after it finishes granary. I would send all of them towards Charlemagne asap. We can see that he is building spies himself.
I didn't settled him, i made SY (unless i hit the wrong button... i hope not...)
Bombing is something for occasional spying: You dont want to devote your infrasturcture to making , so a one time boost is used.
In a EE every single Great Spy should make a SY - the 100% multiplier is huge - imagine Oxford in every city - and that from the BC's, in this case. And those points are not bound to the one Civ we bombed - we can redirect them as we wish.
We already have:
500+ Esp on Charlie
250+ Esp on Bodica
200+ Esp on Caesar
That should be enought, to steal all they have on us right now. And we dont even have ABC yet. Also we make 40 right now (10 of which come from SY) without even touching the slider. This is enought to steal a tech every 5 ot 6 turns.
In a few turns, we will worry rather about getting enought spy's to perform the missions, than about the Esp points.
So while right now we loose only very few - if something at all - by not bombing, the long term advantage of the Scotland Yard will by far outweight this.
We need to decide our three legendary cities. Sherwood and Loxley are obvious and I would go with Gisborne as our third.
Gisbourne has good production for wonder building. At least Pantheon and Statue of Zeus (double production with ivory, base culture 10) should go there. I would also build Shwedagon Paya so we can get Free Religion (and extra culture).
lurker's comment:
A couple comments from a fellow spy. There are some things to keep in mind to keep your EE rocking.
1. The longer spies are in place, the cheaper the techs. So plan on having a spy in place for 5 turns before stealing a tech. This slows down some of your initial acquisitions, but makes all later acquisitions much easier.
2. Holy city and religion can make espionage SO MUCH easier. If you have a holy city (and in that religion -- not sure, but I am pretty sure it's required), the target city has that religion but the target civ isn't that religion (OK, a lot of requirements but not so hard in practice), you get a massive discount (like 30% or something ridiculous) on stealing the tech. It's huge. Well worth capturing a holy city and building a few missionaries (for the closest city of each empire, because distance matters, too).
Most people are aware of the rebates for active trade route, using the espionage screen to check costs, the reusability of spies once built, the relative danger of moving vs. staying still, etc.
lurker's comment: 2. Holy city and religion can make espionage SO MUCH easier. If you have a holy city (and in that religion -- not sure, but I am pretty sure it's required), the target city has that religion but the target civ isn't that religion (OK, a lot of requirements but not so hard in practice), you get a massive discount (like 30% or something ridiculous) on stealing the tech. It's huge. Well worth capturing a holy city and building a few missionaries (for the closest city of each empire, because distance matters, too).
I suppose that I'm up... ( join this to the pile of SGs to play in the next 2 days )
To who are we going to point the big guns ? Can a kind soul post the tech screen just to discuss who to target? I suppose that the Fin civs are our main target ,but will refrain of saying more without seeing the tech screen ( can't open the game now... finishing Fox-10 )
@Arathorn
I *think* that the shrine also cuts a part of the spy points price, isn't it?
I will try to take a look at the save and offer a more-informed opinion, but i would think we need one that are high in prod for the most part. maybe the 1st, 3rd and 4th in hammer production potential and save the 2nd one for unit production?? just a theoretical idea.
lurker's comment: Thanks for the great info, Arathorn, and for lurking. I for one, am NOT that up on the EE so any other info or tidbits you have from your experience would be welcome. Ya know, you would think if i were going to start an SG w/the EE, i would do research . . . [see quote in signature ]
To who are we going to point the big guns ? Can a kind soul post the tech screen just to discuss who to target? I suppose that the Fin civs are our main target ,but will refrain of saying more without seeing the tech screen ( can't open the game now... finishing Fox-10 )
We are investing most EP's on Charlemagne and rest to Boudica. Charlemagne is doing best in techs (and researching right ones ) so we'll be stealing a lot from him. Points against Boudica lets us get some aid in war effort. She's doing terribly at techs so maybe we should divert our EP's against Victoria at some point (close with Charlemagne in techs).
Not our piece of pie , but it could be useful once we have our troops ready
I was quite indecise about what to do with the prophet: yeah , I know that a shrine lowers the necessary EP, but a settled prophet gives under Rep and due to the slider, some EP ( especially in SY city )... In a move that will be controversial, I decided to settle him in capitol
Spoiler:
Our first spy is born.... was routed to Tiwanaku ( was rerouted when we passed boudi in score... EP was rearranged as well )
Spoiler:
Fred wanted a deal.... I gave it a thought and decided in favor
Spoiler:
Babylon founded Taoism... and with Philo ( he adopted Pacifism.... )
Spoiler:
I suppose that you noticed the wars flaming our tree world....
JC wanted us to attack Japan... No way dude,... didn't you read the SG rules?
Spoiler:
Wash was somewhat itchy with us...
Spoiler:
No to the religion change ( We don't need JC jumping on us... ) and yes to the poor NA Wash ( like I said before ,awful combo )
Aesthetics is in... as we can steal Maths in some turns ( spy already in Babylon waiting for stationary bonus ), I decide to go Lit ( a GS would be handy as well )
Spoiler:
Fred want us to go bathing on Ganges and to drop a milk bath on a linga too. No thanks
Spoiler:
Spy spend in Babylon for Philo... we are with 40% discount ATM
Spoiler:
Log
Spoiler:
Logging by BUG Mod 2.11 (BtS 3.13)
------------------------------------------------ Turn 163/750 (155 BC) [31-Jan-2008 14:52:32]
Reminder: On Turn 182, Finish Barnsdale finishes: Monument
IBT: Confucianism has spread: Tiwanaku (Incan Empire) Attitude Change: Victoria(Japan) towards Charlemagne(Babylon), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly' Attitude Change: Boudica(Inca) towards Frederick(Greece), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Turn 164/750 (140 BC) [31-Jan-2008 14:56:20] Barnsdale begins: Lighthouse (23 turns) Whip anger has decreased in Sherwood Sherwood's borders expand
IBT: Frederick(Greece) declares war on Boudica(Inca) Attitude Change: Frederick(Greece) towards Boudica(Inca), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed' Attitude Change: Boudica(Inca) towards Frederick(Greece), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'
IBT: Attitude Change: Washington(Native America) towards Charlemagne(Babylon), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious' Attitude Change: Charlemagne(Babylon) towards Washington(Native America), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
IBT: Attitude Change: Frederick(Greece) towards Victoria(Japan), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly' Attitude Change: Victoria(Japan) towards Frederick(Greece), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
Turn 173/750 (5 BC) [31-Jan-2008 15:13:29] Loxley begins: Confucian Monastery (8 turns) Forest Camp begins: Library (45 turns) A Farm was built near Nottingham Nottingham begins: Hindu Monastery (13 turns) Nottingham finishes: Spy Gisborne grows: 5 Barnsdale finishes: Lighthouse
IBT: Julius Caesar(Byzantium) declares war on Victoria(Japan) Charlemagne(Babylon) declares war on Julius Caesar(Byzantium) Taoism founded in a distant land Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Byzantium) towards Charlemagne(Babylon), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed' Attitude Change: Victoria(Japan) towards Julius Caesar(Byzantium), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed' Attitude Change: Washington(Native America) towards Julius Caesar(Byzantium), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed' Attitude Change: Boudica(Inca) towards Julius Caesar(Byzantium), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Charlemagne(Babylon) towards Julius Caesar(Byzantium), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed' Civics Change: Charlemagne(Babylon) from 'Paganism' to 'Pacifism'
IBT: Confucianism has spread: Machu Picchu (Incan Empire) Boudica(Inca) and Frederick(Greece) have signed a peace treaty Attitude Change: Frederick(Greece) towards PH12(Sumeria), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious' Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Byzantium) towards PH12(Sumeria), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious' Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Byzantium) towards Victoria(Japan), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious' Attitude Change: Victoria(Japan) towards Frederick(Greece), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Boudica(Inca) towards Frederick(Greece), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed'
Turn 175/750 (25 AD) [31-Jan-2008 15:20:09] A Farm was built near Forest Camp Loxley grows: 7
IBT: Attitude Change: Frederick(Greece) towards PH12(Sumeria), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Byzantium) towards PH12(Sumeria), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Turn 176/750 (40 AD) [31-Jan-2008 15:21:11] A Mine was built near Sherwood Whip anger has decreased in Gisborne Whip anger has decreased in Forest Camp Forest Camp grows: 5
IBT: Attitude Change: Frederick(Greece) towards PH12(Sumeria), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious' Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Byzantium) towards PH12(Sumeria), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Turn 180/750 (100 AD) [31-Jan-2008 15:26:38] Research begun: Mathematics (17 Turns) A Farm was built near Sherwood Research begun: Currency (30 Turns) Research begun: Mathematics (17 Turns) Research begun: Civil Service (17 Turns) Research begun: Currency (30 Turns) Research begun: Literature (15 Turns) Nottingham grows: 6
IBT: Victoria(Japan) and Boudica(Inca) have signed a peace treaty Attitude Change: Frederick(Greece) towards PH12(Sumeria), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Victoria(Japan) towards Frederick(Greece), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly' Attitude Change: Victoria(Japan) towards Boudica(Inca), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed' Attitude Change: Boudica(Inca) towards Victoria(Japan), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed' Attitude Change: Charlemagne(Babylon) towards Victoria(Japan), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
IBT: Attitude Change: Victoria(Japan) towards Julius Caesar(Byzantium), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'
Turn 183/750 (145 AD) [31-Jan-2008 15:33:02]
Reminder: Finish Loxley begins: Library (8 turns) A Farm was built near Barnsdale
Regards
As you can see in log, things are getting hot in here..... If only we could rush Boudica or JC
We should spread confu to the closest babilonian and japanese cities.... We already have a missionary en route to the Babilonian one and more are being produced. As a side effect i think we shoud try to work more on the religion: the Ai are too Hindu for my taste....
I think that we should reserch/steal towards engineering ( castles ) after maybe getting Music ( cathedrals )... From there, the usual Lib-> Natio stuff ( aiming for the Constitution/Democracy EP multipliers )
BTW we should start thinking in working for the cultural ( and maybe sushi in a farfar future? )
Looking good, even when Boudica is dropped below us in score. Julius is having hard times against Victoria and Charlemagne so maybe we should steal Mathematics -> Construction ASAP and give him little aid
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, so a one time boost is used.
)
)
under Rep and due to the slider, some EP ( especially in SY city )... In a move that will be controversial, I decided to settle him in capitol
