Phaedo's 1st basic skills training game: patience required

[Salarakas]

Since there's no reply I'll jump in and play then. I GOT IT!

 

[Phaedo]

Sounds good. Good luck

 

[Salarakas]

Turn 0 - 1000BC
-The only thing I change is Vladivostok's build from warrior to worker. Everything seems to be in order

Tech situation:
Celts: UP map making and construction, DOWN literature
Arabs: UP nothing, DOWN literature
Hittites: UP map making, DOWN literature
Dutch: UP map making and construction, DOWN literature

Literature and all our gold won't get us construction so I decide not to do any trades.

Turn 1 - 975BC
-spot at least 3 units on go-to mode. Please don't use it in succession games
-the Dutch have code of laws We were only 3 turns away from it. Ah well...

IBT: the Celts complete the Oracle at Entremont, no cascade (hooray!)

Turn 2 - 950BC
-Irown town sword->sword
-found Smolensk on the eastern pink dot
-send the scout to the Dutch area to update our maps

Turn 3 - 925BC
-the Arabs have construction as well. Literature and all our gold still isn't enough
-Yekaterinburg worker->catapult
-Yaroslavl worker->catapult

Turn 4 - 900BC
-Code of laws comes in, start working on republic (28 turns at 100% science)
-Moscow settler->settler
-upgrade our veteran warrior to sword

Turn 5 - 875BC
-the Hittites have currency
-our sword takes care of the barb camp in the northwest
-Yakutsk worker->catapult
-Iron Town sword->sword

Turn 6 - 850BC
-the Celts and the Dutch have polytheism
-do some trades and we now have polytheism, construction and currency. Didn't want to trade for map making yet as our curragh is ready next IBT

IBT: STATUE OF ZEUS IS OURS!

Turn 7 - 825BC
-St Petes SoZ->barracks
-Rostov curragh->catapult
-What to do with Moscow? It will grow in 1 unless I slow it down. I decide to switch the build to barracks as we want to go to war soon and don't have any good spots for a town left.

Turn 8 - 800BC
-Yaroslavl catapult->catapult (with the help of a forest chop)

Turn 9 - 775BC
-Moscow barracks->sword (10 SPT = 3 turns)
-Vladivostok worker->catapult
-Iron Town sword->spearman
-found Orenburg on the western pink dot

IBT: the Arabs demand literature. I give in as we don't want a war with them as we're some 10 turns away from starting one with the Dutch

Turn 10 - 750BC
-Utrecht (the Dutch town near Moscow) has gone from size 3 to size 1. Either a settler or a whipped defender.


NOTES for the next player:
-St Petes is micromanaged to finish the barracks in 2 so that's why it's starving. Once the barracks is done change the citizens and start building swords there
-Moscow is at 10SPT and can build either swords every 3 turns or spearmen in 2. We want a couple of spearmen in the east to defend against the Dutch counterattack but only a couple. Focus on swords.
-I sent our curragh south. There seems to be an island or something in the north but the 2 barb galleys would have eaten our curragh for breakfast
-we only need map making to get into the middle ages. Don't trade anything with the Dutch! We don't want them to get to feudalism before we strike. We also don't need map making until we have discovered republic so don't do any trades
-we might want to keep the regular sword in the north
-Smolensk will complete a catapult in 2 turns with a help of a forest chop. Keep working on the irrigation line and chop the forests near Smolensk and Orenburg for catapults
-we have 3 veteran swords and 1 catapult. We should have enough troops in 10-15 turns to start the attack

EDIT: you might also want to change Rostov to a barracks.

 

[Bucephalus]

spot at least 3 units on go-to mode. Please don't use it in succession games

Why not? I had Workers finishing their tasks on turn 9; would you rather them just skip a turn?

And it's not like you weren't forewarned:

We have 6 Workers, more on the way.They are all currently under orders.

 

[Salarakas]

Why not? I had Workers finishing their tasks on turn 9; would you rather them just skip a turn?

I've been following this section of the forums for almost two years and each time someone uses go-to they get a notice from the other players. It's easier to get the big picture when you can move the units yourself instead of having to guess where each unit came from and where they are heading. It might be obvious to you what they were supposed to be doing but I can't read your thoughts. I'm not sure what you mean by skipping a turn though.

And it wasn't just workers as the settler was on go-to mode too as well as the scout unit.

 

[Bucephalus]

I've been following this section of the forums for almost two years and each time someone uses go-to they get a notice from the other players. It's easier to get the big picture when you can move the units yourself instead of having to guess where each unit came from and where they are heading. It might be obvious to you what they were supposed to be doing but I can't read your thoughts. I'm not sure what you mean by skipping a turn though.

And it wasn't just workers as the settler was on go-to mode too as well as the scout unit.

Workers: If they finish a job on turn 9, I either send them to work elsewhere, or I waste a turn with them waiting for you to give them orders.

Scout: It had explored it's full range; if I don't send it elsewhere, it sits where it is for 5-6 turns, wasting turns until you decide where you want it.

Settler: It's a no brainer; quite clearly I had sent it to found a new city, as the previous player had also done. The alternative, again, was to waste turns waiting for you to give it the same orders that I did, as there is hardly a wealth of spots to settle.

Edit: Incidentally, the Workes concerned were on iroad to orders, so there was no need to second-guess my intentions.

 

[Salarakas]

Workers: If they finish a job on turn 9, I either send them to work elsewhere, or I waste a turn with them waiting for you to give them orders.

Of course you should send them somewhere but don't use the go-to. Just use the 1-3 moves that turn and leave the rest to the next player.

Scout: It had explored it's full range; if I don't send it elsewhere, it sits where it is for 5-6 turns, wasting turns until you decide where you want it.

Again, of course you shouldn't let it sit somewhere but you shouldn't use go-to either. I don't know what you planned for it but it might have been different from what I used it for in the end (scout the Dutch area again).

Settler: It's a no brainer; quite clearly I had sent it to found a new city, as the previous player had also done. The alternative, again, was to waste turns waiting for you to give it the same orders that I did, as there is hardly a wealth of spots to settle.

Yes but your spot for the city might have been different from mine especially as we hadn't discussed it yet.

Here's a couple of quotes from two very experienced SG players from "Rat 17 - AW for C3C scenarios" where a player used the go-to mode recently.

Oh, units on go-to. Not exactly going where I want them to go. Putting units on go-to is not very cool in an SG. If you want to play my turns as well, then play a solo game.

and automoves are a big in SG's for sure. Please avoid that

 

[Bucephalus]

Of course you should send them somewhere but don't use the go-to. Just use the 1-3 moves that turn and leave the rest to the next player.

Read my edit, previous post.

Again, of course you shouldn't let it sit somewhere but you shouldn't use go-to either. I don't know what you planned for it but it might have been different from what I used it for in the end (scout the Dutch area again).

And that's exactly where it was headed; there was nowhere else for it to go.

Yes but your spot for the city might have been different from mine especially as we hadn't discussed it yet.

There are two places left to settle, both where the Settler was headed.

 

[Salarakas]

Edit: Incidentally, the Workes concerned were on iroad to orders, so there was no need to second-guess my intentions.

If you really want to know I ended up reloading the save and cancelled all the go-to orders. I did change at least one order: I used the worker near Moscow which was heading towards Yekaterinburg for starting the irrigation line instead. It was my turn, it was my choice. And even if I wanted it to move on that tile I might have wanted to build a mine before the road.

And that's exactly where it was headed; there was nowhere else for it to go.

It could have been heading to one of our cities for disbanding for all I knew.

There are two places left to settle, both where the Settler was headed.

No. There were several possible spots to settle and someone else might have wanted to settle on one of the desert tiles.

The whole point of succession games is that we all think differently and have different strenghts and weaknesses. Someone might be good at early rapid expansion, someone else might know the ins and outs of micromanagement and a third player could be the expert of warmongering. We all look at the game from a different angle. We all contribute to the whole. We all play 10 turns at a time and no more. By using go-to or road-to or whatever else you're not limiting your contribution to 10 turns, you're making decisions for the next player as well. That goes against the whole idea of succession games.

 

[Tribute]

Enough! just play the game and don't worry about silly goto's! Was that the main problem and effort in the turnset?!

The point was that you're trying to defeat the Dutch (who got screwed over by the way in starting spot). You've been amassing troops and plan to build many more troops for the invasion in the next turnset. Logistically, you should plan to take that close town on your SW border while charging at Rotterdam with the bulk of your army. Hopefully, Amsterdam will just finish whatever wonder it is building and not send any troops at you. When you arrive there with your stack, it should be about the 3rd from now person's turnset.

1st: Build troops and prepare for invasion.
2nd: Take Utrecht and Rotterdam. Get to Amsterdam.
3rd: Take Amsterdam and head South. Prepare for a different war.

 

[Salarakas]

Enough! just play the game and don't worry about silly goto's! Was that the main problem and effort in the turnset?!

I think Buce played a great turnset and I'd be happy if he continued playing for us in the future. Even with D'Artagnan on board we only have 4 players (plus Twix). I was just trying to explain that using go-to in succession games is considered "bad behaviour" or whatever you want to call it and shouldn't be used in the future, that's all.

But you're right, we should discuss the upcoming war a bit more. In 15 turns we'll have 3 ancient cavalry, 3 or 4 catapults and 10 swords or so. That should be enough. We need to build some roads towards the Dutch core though or else moving the troops there will take a lot of turns. The jungle hurts... We must not stop the war until we have taken out The Hague which has both horses and iron next to it.

 

[Aabraxan]

Looks like a good turnset. I won't have time to play my set out tonight, but do want to make a couple of comments on the upcoming war. This is just what I see from the screenshots. I haven't opened up the save.

Utrecht -- It's size 1, which means it'll autoraze when it falls. We may not have a settler ready at the time it falls, but I would prefer not to leave that space open for very long, lest someone else claim it.

The Hague -- Looks like it may be the only source of iron and horses for the Dutch. (For that matter, the horses aren't even roaded yet.) Once Rotterdam falls, one quick pillage and the Hague becomes the only Dutch city capable of swords.

I'll reread Sal's turnset and notes before I play my set. As it will be at least tomorrow night, and quite possible Tuesday night, if anyone has any other thoughts on things that I should try to accomplish, I'm all ears.

 

[Phaedo]

The Hague -- Looks like it may be the only source of iron and horses for the Dutch. (For that matter, the horses aren't even roaded yet.) Once Rotterdam falls, one quick pillage and the Hague becomes the only Dutch city capable of swords.

You may be able to do that pillage with the scout and stop them from swords earlier.

 

[Phaedo]

Oh, and here's the roster just to keep things clear
Current Roster:
Bucephalus On deck (hopefully you're still with us)
Twix (skipping?)
D'art Warming up
Phaedo waiting
Sal Just Played
Aabra Up

 

[Aabraxan]

You may be able to do that pillage with the scout and stop them from swords earlier.

That's sorta what I had in mind. It doesn't look like we'll be ready to attack on my turnset, but I was thinking about setting him just outside the Dutch borders so that whoever does get to attack can move him in and pillage on the first or second turn of war.

 

[Salarakas]

St Petes could build a settler so that we can replace Utrecht. It can't grow above size 6 so if it builds a settler when the foodbox is full it will drop to size 4 for 1 turn and grow to size 5 the next turn. It can get +5 food so it will be back in size 6 just 5 turns after building the settler even with no granary. I think we should keep building swords in Moscow.

We can talk about the details of the start of the war after the next turnset. The next 10 turns are just preparing for it. Some goals for you might be to improve the road network towards the Dutch core so that we'll get there faster. We also need to connect Vladivostok which either means another road through the jungle (so that units could get there from Yakutsk in 1 turn) or a road on the grassland 1S of the iron.

We could also use more workers as we have only 10 for 10 towns. We'll be advancing quickly soon so we need a lot of workers just to build the road network and there's still a whole lot of unimproved useful tiles in our core area.

(Phaedo, wasn't it actually your turn now? You could play after Aab and then Buce/D'Art/Twix)

 

[Aabraxan]

(Phaedo, wasn't it actually your turn now? You could play after Aab and then Buce/D'Art/Twix)

Now that you mention it, I think it actually is Phaedo's turn. I normally follow Salarakas and forgot that Sal played D'art's turnset. Phaedo's up. Oops. My bad. Phaedo, take it away.

 

[Phaedo]

That's Ok. I skipped and D'art didn't get to it so this is fine. I'm a bit busy at work now (marking essays and midterms) so Aabra playing works best

 

[Aabraxan]

Fine. I'll try to play tonight if nobody has any objections. I may or may not get through the whole turnset, but I'll get started.

 

[Aabraxan]

Didn't get to play last night. RL got in the way.

Unfortunately, my home computer crashed this morning. I need to be skipped until further notice. Sorry, guys.