Phaedo's 1st basic skills training game: patience required

[Phaedo]

Yes. I could have revolted already after capturing the silk town but in SGs it's preferably to leave such actions to the next player just in case someone disagrees. I can revolt and MM the cities for you if you'd prefer it that way.

that's ok, I think can manage it but I'll post a save after I'm done so you can check it and point out any flaws

I didn't get to it yesterday as it turned out to be a pretty busy day off. I'm going to start it now though

 

[Phaedo]

Well, here is the post MM save. St Pete's doesn't actually need the specialist now but will next turn.

 

[Phaedo]

T00 150 BC
Look around and decide to revolt this turn. Most of my set is going ot be in revolution anyway but the quicker it's over the bettter it is for everyone
Revolution!
Looks like we pulled a 5-turn anarchy period. Not bad all and all
MM cities for food. The most we can get is two food on any non bonus land so there wasn't really much switching to do. Made the specialist a beakerhead where we could afford it but not at the expense of food

IBT some Dutch worker movement

T01 130 BC
Aleppo revolts and all the citizens start studying science. I cycled through the cities and see I missed The Hague on my MMing. It had a scientish working but was at pop 1. Get the citizen working a hill with only 1 food surplus
Decide to leave 6 cats behind to defend Silk town and possibly head towards Hattusha but move them south to the hill with the AC and a vSword.
Move a stack of 8 cats, 2 AC, 3 swords, a spear and a settler towards the Hittite capital.
Keep moving other units towards the Hittite front (this will continue and I don't think I will enter the details after this)
I've been thinking about the GL and I think the best thing to do is keep it and then give it away a bit before Ed is known. We may be able to get knights for free. I send a sword down there as an open city with the GL might be too much for the Arabs to resist and I'd rather not be at war with them until we choose
Hold my breath and hit return

IBT Hittites send up some units towards The Hague and from Ankuwa. A warrior also moves beside that useless little town way to the SE. For myself, I'm going to call that area Chiba penninsula as it is the same geography as the Chiba side of Tokyo bay
The Arabs are building the Hanging Gardens. I hope they get it.

T02 110 BC
Abandon Andhoven
Move the stack into position beside the H capital with reinforcements coming up behind.
Start some roads, an irrigation line towards the jungle and start clearing the other banana

IBT the Hittite units in Chiba keep moving north next to our Ac and sword on a hill

T03 90 BC
Bombard The Hittite capital. There seems to be just 2 spears. Redline one and the other is at yellow
Attack with the eSword and he gets promoted! We now can have our first army
AC attacks and takes the Pyramids! We get 1 worker out of the deal
Move our leader back to Silk town and make an army. I'm thinking that we'll want a MI army but I'm going to wait on that for now.
Our two units on the hill kill the Hittites archers that were moving north towards The Hague.
Get Aleppo citizens studying science agian

IBT nada

T04 70 BC
Move a force south towards Hattusha and fortify in the forest.
Send the spear and settler to the red dot position to found a city.
Start getting the eastern force into attack position again for the new Hittihte capital of Ugarit

IBT a Hittite 3MC attacks the red dot settler pair but they survive (didn't see that coming. Oops)

T05 50 BC
Moscow revolts (my bad. should have checked on that)
We are now a Republic!
Change citizens around to get shield production up
Move towards Hattusha
Found red dot Riverton
Move stack to new Hittite cap
Drop science to 0% and with lux at 10% we are losing 9gpt. Hire 1 scientist in Rostov and I can drop the lux to 0% and we are at +1gpt. I guess that makes more sense than paying 10gpt for one happy citizen (thanks Buce for that tip)
We still get Engineering in 23 with the starving scientists

IBT Dutch Groningen growns and they kick us off the hill

T06 30 BC
Yarslov builds a cat and puts us to -3gpt. switch to an aqueduct and some of the other core towns to aqueducts. We have a lot of towns building cats we can't afford but they will still be in production when my set is finished and they are size 1. I do change one to a worker
Bombard Ugarit and take the one redlined spear with an elite sword. Send in the units and send the cats back
Move the other stack towards Hattusha. There's nothing in Hattusha we want and the green dot is weak so I think I'll raise and replace. We can use the workers and they'll be free so I send the other settler with cover in that direction

IBT Hittite archer moves next to the settler/sword/cat trio.

T07 10 BC
Bobmard and kill the lone Hittite archer
Bombard Hattusha. They seem to have 3 rSpears, two are yellow and one red
Take out the city with no losses but no leaders. Raze it
Start a Library in Yakut (it can be changed)

IBT Nada

T08 10 AD
Found Gem Town
roading and mining
Arabs took the Celt ivory town. I think we should keep pushing in the same direction and go to war with the Celts but I'll leave that to the next player

IBT Zzzzz

T09 30 AD
Rotterdam builds a rax and switches to duct
AC next to The Hague attacks a warrior and makes another leader. Next turn is my last one so I'll leave it to the next player. We are 29 away from the FP in Iron Town
road and mine

IBT a Celt settler pair move up and I change my mind about a city build

T10 50 AD
Move extra military East
Starving cities need to go back to science.
And I'm done

I think that's pretty much it. There are a bunch of units in the middle and they could be sent either east or west but it's up to the next player.
No unit losses and I think things are in order althout I'm a bit sleepy so I could have missed something. I know I should have settled a town earlier but it can be done next turn. I was trying to get two in but didn't manage it. Sorry, took the risk and got caught
Good luck and good night

Some screenies and the save

 

[Bucephalus]

Good stuff, Phaedo.

I have one quibble on general strategy: I think building the FP in 'Iron Town' is not making optimum use of it. 'Iron Town' has virtually zero corruption, and being coastal, it has limited effect on other cities. I don't know if you run 'Civassist' (if you don't, you really ought) but there is a facility which allows you to see where the most efficient place is to have the FP; in this case the FP has it's optimum effect in Vladivostok. Since we have a MGL, I suggest building it there; after all, we don't require an Army to defeat Celts or Arabs, and the shields in 'Iron Town' could be switched to a marketplace.

 

[Salarakas]

Well done Phaedo! 2 leaders, pyramids, gems, switch to republic...

Well, here is the post MM save.

Very good The only things I would have changed were the St Petes specialist (like you said) and then the next turn give the wheat from Smolenks to St Petes (Smolensk was already size 6 and needed an aqueduct to grow any bigger).

I cycled through the cities and see I missed The Hague on my MMing. It had a scientish working but was at pop 1. Get the citizen working a hill with only 1 food surplus

You didn't miss it, I had deliberately set it up that way. The land around the town is so poor that it needs a harbor to grow bigger than size 2 until we get railroads. I figured getting 3 beakers a turn from the scientist was better. Should have mentioned that on my report though.

Drop science to 0% and with lux at 10% we are losing 9gpt.

Ouch. I knew it was going to hurt but not that bad. This is one of the reasons why I really prefer the CxxC city placement as you can have a lot more units before it starts hurting you.

in this case the FP has it's optimum effect in Vladivostok. Since we have a MGL, I suggest building it there; after all, we don't require an Army to defeat Celts or Arabs, and the shields in 'Iron Town' could be switched to a marketplace.

I agree. My suggestion for handbuilding the FP in Iron Town was because:
1. it was in the general direction of our expansion and helps slightly with the distance corruption.
2. it had pretty good shields potential as it was still close to the capital and had nice land around it
3. it was close to Vladivostok which will be a real killer town once we get the jungle chopped and improve the surroundings

Now the situation has changed:
1. like you said we don't need an army to conquer our continent
2. we already have an empty army
3. we don't even have any nice units to fill the army/armies. AC is already a bit outdated and the medieval infantry is not very exciting with its 1 movement point

Vladivostok is a great place for the FP.


We need to disband all the warriors. They cost us 16 gold every turn and don't help us in any way. We do need to have a couple of good units in our core though or we might be in trouble. I also suggest we stop making catapults altogether (unless there isn't anything better to do) and concentrate on settlers in our corrupt cities. We need a lot of towns and our core cities need to build aqueducts, marketplaces and libraries, not to mention grow to size 7 or higher asap.

 

[Phaedo]

Thanks guys. I didn't really consider the FP too much just changed. There were basically only 5 turns of shields into it so I don't think we'll lose anything with an aqueduct or marketplace switch

I agree about using the great leader. We don't have any exciting units for our already present army. I don't even think we need an army to take over our continent but it will make things easier. Here's a thought, the best we can put in that army would be Cosacks (or maybe knights if we get them through the GL and want it earlier) right? But we're not going to get them for quite a while. Buce and Zerkses were talking about how the AI won't touch armies running through their territory in the open unless there is greater than a 10% chance for any one unit to to win. If we don't have any good offensive units, maybe we should make a defensive unit army. We could basically go anywhere into foreign territory with impunity. Just an idea really. I've never tried it myself (actually i have had infantry armies before when I couldn't make tanks and because of their strong defense, they were useful even once we were fighting with MAs)

Our unit upkeep is getting better. Taking those towns helped. We are at something like +6 now. At any rate, we don't need more cats. I think I switched all the ones in the core but not the corrupt towns. I'm not adverse to CxC in corrupt areas. 3 specialist towns with no upkeep aren't a bad thing at all.

 

[Salarakas]

Here's a thought, the best we can put in that army would be Cosacks (or maybe knights if we get them through the GL and want it earlier) right? But we're not going to get them for quite a while. Buce and Zerkses were talking about how the AI won't touch armies running through their territory in the open unless there is greater than a 10% chance for any one unit to to win. If we don't have any good offensive units, maybe we should make a defensive unit army. We could basically go anywhere into foreign territory with impunity.

A knight army would have been excellent for clearing out our continent but we clearly don't need it anymore and it will be outdated by the time we start invading the other continent.

Even after all these years of playing the game I still don't understand everything there is to the armies. What you say about the enemy not touching them is true but not always. I'm not totally sure about this but it seems that the AI *will* attack armies if they don't have anything other to target. If we declare war on the civs on the other continent and then drop a cossack army right next to one of their cities it will most likely be attacked and killed if the AI has enough units in that area (or railroads).

In that way a defensive army would be useful. It could "absorb" the initial wave of attacks much better. After that, however, it would be somewhat useless as with enough artillery and cossacks our advancement would be swift. A cossack army has 4 moves, 100% more than a rifle army. If we also found a city on the other continent the AI units would most likely target that and ignore our cossack army which could pillage without anyone trying to stop it. Or just raze cities if there isn't a resource which we really want to keep the AI out of (e.g. rubber so that they can't build infantries).

Our unit upkeep is getting better. Taking those towns helped. We are at something like +6 now. At any rate, we don't need more cats. I think I switched all the ones in the core but not the corrupt towns. I'm not adverse to CxC in corrupt areas. 3 specialist towns with no upkeep aren't a bad thing at all.

Getting better perhaps but it's still horrendous. I don't think we should raze any cities in the future, however crappy their spots might be. We want to advance quickly and razing only slows us down. Every city we capture will give us 2 gold per turn + whatever amount of beakers that starving them to size 1 would give. We need to push forward with haste, we can fill the "empty" spaces with more towns later on.

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:

The AI will not attack armies in the fieled as long as they not redlined or like a loser. That is an archer army will be attacked by cavs or rifles, even at full health, but a knight army will not. If they are parked next to a town, they could get bombarded.

The thing you can see is a patrol unit bump into an army that it would not otherwise attack. IOW if you have the NoAiPatrol flag on there is a chance a stray unit will bump into the army and then attack. With the flag off, that does not happen either.

Once you move any army into a town, it could be attacked by any type of unit.

Note once bombers come into play, all bets are off as they will bombard the army and then attack it.

 

[Bucephalus]

Thanks for the clarification, vmxa.

 

[Phaedo]

Lurker:
The AI will not attack armies in the fieled as long as they not redlined or like a loser.

I get the first part, what does "like a loser mean?"

 

[Salarakas]

He meant that the defence rating of an archer is only 1 so despite having 3 or 4 units "glued together" in the army it would still be seen as an easy prey and be attacked. The same goes for horsemen armies. That's why some people prefer to have spearmen armies in the very beginning as they can at least be used for defending one tile of the map (e.g. an important city) or for pillaging the AI's resources.

What's the situation with this SG now... I guess it's Buce's turn again, right?

 

[Phaedo]

He meant that the defence rating of an archer is only 1 so despite having 3 or 4 units "glued together" in the army it would still be seen as an easy prey and be attacked. The same goes for horsemen armies. That's why some people prefer to have spearmen armies in the very beginning as they can at least be used for defending one tile of the map (e.g. an important city) or for pillaging the AI's resources.

Thanks

It is Buce's turn.
It's just the threee of now that Aabra is without a pc. D'art seems to be out of everything except his own until December. We could really use another player. Too bad we haven't seen Twix in a while. But as things are, it's up to Buce then Sal.

 

[Bucephalus]

I can only take it if there's no rush. My Civ time is a bit restricted for the next few days, and I'm 'up' in 'TomTom'.

You could try advertising for new players in the SG registry.

 

[Phaedo]

I will advertise although I'm sure we'd all love to have you play a set when you can

 

[Aabraxan]

As of yesterday, my home pc is functional. As I'm what I like to term "technologically reclined," I'm really not sure if I've fixed the problem(s), but I once again have internet and CivAssist II.

That said, I have no clue where we are in the rotation, but I'm available. That said, I should also warn you that my work schedule just increased by a considerable amount, so playing will be a bit slow.

By the way, if you really want to feel like you're flying blind, play without the benefit of CAII for a while. I had C3C, but no CAII and no internet to restore it for a while there. I had no idea how fast CAII would spoil me.

 

[Salarakas]

Good to have you back! Since Buce is busy you could play the next 10 turns if that's OK with Phaedo and Buce. I could play on Wednesday but since I played before Phaedo it wouldn't make much sense.

CAII... a fantastic program but also needs a lot of memory to run and uses some CPU as well. I've been running the game on an old laptop with only 128MB of memory, no mouse and no keypad. I must say, playing with this takes a LOT more time than on my normal setup To move the units I press 'g' and then try to hit the right spot with this crappy touchpad. Using alt+tab is slow as 128MB is just not enough... I don't even dare to imagine what kind of swap-fest CAII would give me. Mapstat runs much better

 

[Aabraxan]

CAII... a fantastic program but also needs a lot of memory to run and uses some CPU as well.

I find this odd, because I thought CAII was a pretty small program. Anyway, I'm about to download Mapstat and I'll give it a try.

 

[Phaedo]

Welcome Back Aabraxan! Good to see you
If you can, you should take the next set. Take your time and ask any questions to refamilarize yourself with the game. Honestly, we are steam rolling everyone (although the Arabs may give us some competition in a bit). Being the only one with iron makes a huge difference.

I like CAII but Mapstat is great too. I used Mapstat originally and then tried CAII and just didn't switch back. I don't have any memory or CPU problems with C3C althoug Civ4 gave me some problems late in my 1st game and I haven't gone back to it.

Good to have you back

 

[Aabraxan]

If Buce has no objection, I'll take it next, but it will be this weekend before I can get to it. RL and my job are too hectic to do otherwise right now.

 

[Bucephalus]

If Buce has no objection, I'll take it next, but it will be this weekend before I can get to it. RL and my job are too hectic to do otherwise right now.

No, please do; I'm struggling for time myself.