Phaedo's 1st basic skills training game: patience required

[Phaedo]

It has occured to me that it that the irony of gifting it to The Dutch would be almost poetic.

I agreee , however perhaps the Arabs might be a better call as it will be very far from their capital and totally corrupt. We don't want to see it get razed before it grows to a 2

 

[Aabraxan]

Are we all agreed that the GL needs to be gifted away, we should declare on the Arabs and we should get some boats running the uncharted waters looking for the new world in the next set?

Yes. And as much as I'd enjoy the irony of giving the GL back to the Dutch, irony doesn't always make for good strategic decisions. I think the Arabs might be the best choice for the reasons that Phaedo explained.

Here's another thought about GL (and I'm totally shooting from the hip here) and it getting razed before it gets to size 2. Can we spare a worker? If we're concerned about it getting autorazed, we could join one worker before giving it away. Then it would be size 2 and wouldn't autoraze. I know we're low on workers and this may be a ridiculous idea, but I do expect to pick up a few more slaves during the Russian-Arab Wars.

 

[Phaedo]

If it were in serious danger that would work but I don't think it's necessary. We actually have the one citizen in there as a specialist so it won't grow too much and be weak for the civ we give it to. Relocating that citizen will get it growing pretty quickly (10 maybe?). The Arabs are pretty strong so it's doubtful anyone will attack them except us. I doubt the razing issue is really that serious. It was just a quick worry I had. I think keeping it away from a capital is more important as it is right on our border. The more waste in that city, the fewer threatening units it can build. Possibly not having access to the iron would be a nice plus too (actually, this is perhaps a strong argument for NOT gifting it to the Arabs. Withouth Iron, none of the other AIs can make anything that really threatens us at all).

 

[Salarakas]

I was actually thinking about the autoraze problem some time ago. I seem to remember that there were 3 rules:

A town will autoraze if
1. it's size 1 when you capture it AND
2. has not expanded its borders (i.e. has less than 10 culture) AND
3. what?

I seem to remember a third rule but am not sure what it is. It could have been that if the city has a wonder it won't autoraze but I'm not sure. In any case if we gift it to the Arabs (they're still my #1 choice) we need to do it now, before we declare war on them. They will let the city grow then and it won't be size 1 when we eventually capture it again. And, if we capture all other Arab towns it will become their capital too and get 10 or more culture quickly even if they don't manage to build any other cultural buildings there. Hence, we don't have to worry about autorazing the town no matter what.

I think it should be Buce's turn now if D'Art doesn't reply soon. I can't probably play until Monday anyway.

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:

If the pop is native to you, it won't autoraze. At least that is what I have been told.

 

[Bucephalus]

Another option is to keep it for the time being; the Dutch or Hittites are still alive, so we gift it anytime it becomes necessary. We also have the option of gifting it to one of our overseas competitors once we meet them, just so long as we do it before meeting two of them.

 

[Salarakas]

Yes, gifting the city to the other civs works too but if we want to give it to the Arabs it needs to be now, before we declare war. I don't think it really matters much though.

Looks like D'Art is going to be skipped again so Buce, can you take the game next? If not, I can probably play on Monday. Possibly even on Sunday but no promises.

If the pop is native to you, it won't autoraze. At least that is what I have been told.

That might have been it. Thanks.

 

[Bucephalus]

Yes, gifting the city to the other civs works too but if we want to give it to the Arabs it needs to be now, before we declare war. I don't think it really matters much though.

No, it doesn't. But I have a slight reservation over giving to the Arabs, in that it would be vulnerable to the Dutch, and the more times it changes hands, the more likely it might be razed. Although my original suggestion of gifting it to the Dutch was light-hearted, I now actually like the idea, as it would be safe in their hands until we decide to take it back.

Looks like D'Art is going to be skipped again so Buce, can you take the game next? If not, I can probably play on Monday. Possibly even on Sunday but no promises.

Well, I may have some free time tomorrow - I think I owe myself a break - but if I can't I will have to defer to you, I'm busy all weekend.

So if anyone wishes to comment (or if D'art decides he'd like to pull his weight), then tonight is the time to do it.

 

[Phaedo]

I could take it if you guys are busy. I have tonight and tomorrow free. I did just play before Aabra though. We are kind of catch as catch can these days

 

[Bucephalus]

I could take it if you guys are busy. I have tonight and tomorrow free. I did just play before Aabra though. We are kind of catch as catch can these days

I'm going to try to play this in the next couple of hours, so maybe we can get two turns in. If I'm right, it must be evening time in the Land of the Rising Sun.

 

[Phaedo]

Indeed it is. Just finished my last day of classes
Still lots of marking and exams to go but finishing classes frees up a lot of my time

 

[D'Artagnan59]

Yes, I would have to be skipped. Camping.

 

[Phaedo]

You are welcome to take a set when you are ready D'art. Just let us know and post a pre-flight to get approval from the team before you take it away. Add a helping hand when you have time to read the logs and give the set proper attention. As you haven't really been involved, just show due respect to the team that has got us this far and it should be all good. This game will be around for a bit (but we ought to win sooner than later with our luck at being one of the only two civs with iron on the continent and some excellent play by the team).

Have fun camping

 

[Bucephalus]

Pre-turn:

Change a lot of builds; libraries/ aqueducts where appropriate, Galley's in unproductive coastal cities.
A little mm shaves 3 turns off Invention.
Disappointingly, the bulk of our offensive forces are in the core, so it will be 5 turns or so before I can rally enough to make inroads in
to Arabia.
Celts will give Camel-dung for peace, but not Audustodorum. I figure the latter has some hitherto unseen future resource so I'll take it
before giving peace.
My first Arab target will be Alesia for the Spices; it will auto-raze but we have a Settler nearby.
There are an aweful lot of inappropriate Worker jobs going on, unfortunately all too advanced for it to be worthwhile stopping them.

Enter:

260 AD:

Iron Town completes Market > Library (4)
Moscow completes Settler > MI (3)
Capture Augustodorum with the loss of one Sword;
Move AC in to Arab territory just to have a look see; they have a few Swords around, predictably regulars.
Brennus refuses to give me both of his spare cities for peace, so I move some units next his Capital to remind who's winning this war.

IBT:

Arab troop movements.

270 AD:

St. Petes completes Library > Market
New AC;
Haran Library > Market
Y'burg completes Library > Galley (3)
Capture Richboro' creating Two MGL's; We now have Three Armies, so I'm going to use one for the assault on Arabia.
There is no-one on-line to discuss this with, so it's a judgement call; apologies in advance if anyone objects.

Give Celts peace in exchange for Agadincum; they are now a 1CC.

IBT:

Arabs begin to move units towards the new Celt Capital;
USA completes G. Lighthouse.

280 AD:

Tyrana completes Galley > Galley
Various Worker jobs finished, reassigned.
Tell Abu to remove his forces from our territory; he agrees and becomes cautious.
Position AC for a pillage run to the Arab Iron; it's almost time to rumble.

IBT:

Abu again tresspasses; as you like, Abu.
Irritatingly, Alesia flips from Arab to Celts; I'm going to have to colonise Spices nr Fustat for the time being

290 AD:

Moscow completes MI > MI
Vladi'k completes Library > Aqueduct;
Build MI Army in Hattusas, move in to position for War next turn.

IBT:

Celts/ Arabia make Peace;

300 AD:

Iron Town completes Library > Galley;
Rostov, Y'slavl complete Ducts > Libraries.
OK, here we go; DOW Arabia;
Destroy Arab stack near Fustat; no casualties.
Capture Anjar;
Army has first victory at Lugdunum - we can now build HE & MA;
Build Spice colony nr Entremont.
AC kills MI, then heads to pillage Arab Iron.
Begin suicide run from Yek'Burg

IBT:

Lose red-lined AC to Arab Sword; they get MGL, for what good it will do them.

310 AD:

Capture Gergovia;
Found Kazan;
Advance on Fustat;
At Lugdunum, we suddenly face Pikes; Army destroys one but sustains damage;
Suicide Galley moves further in to open Ocean;
Begin HE in Moscow (13)

IBT:

320 AD:

Capture Fustat;
Suicide Galley sinks;
Advance on Najran;
Pillaging AC has 4 MI's on it's tail;

IBT:

MI attacks pillaging AC, loses and.... we have another MGL; but it's deep within Arab territory, so I'll be lucky to keep it alive.
AC retreats from another MI, MGL dies... easy come, easy go;
AC killed on third attack.

330 AD:

Learn Invention, begin Gunpowder (7)
Couple more suicide Galley's sent out, lost track of where they were built, sorry.
Approach Najran, everywhere else we are paused while healing.

IBT:

Nada.

340 AD:

Capture Najran;
Capture Lugdunum;
Western Suicide Galley spots blue border on the horizon.

IBT:

Nada:

350 AD:

Western Suicide Galley sinks;
Eastern S/ Galley finds what appears to be unoccupied land. It's on a sea square though.

End turn notes:

The blue borders to the West can be reached in two turns with the right starting point, ie diagnally from Rostov.
I've had the military in two stacks, which are now converging on Medina.
There are a couple of Settlers knocking about if you can find somewhere suitable to put them.
Phaedo, you have everything you need to finish the job - it's all yours.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/38078/Phaedo_350_AD_Buce.SAV

 

[Aabraxan]

As always, an excellent set, Buce. Nice job.

Capture Richboro' creating Two MGL's; . . .

Holy . . . !! I didn't even know this was possible!

There is no-one on-line to discuss this with, so it's a judgement call; apologies in advance if anyone objects.
Give Celts peace in exchange for Agadincum; they are now a 1CC.

No objection. I don't really want to be fighting two-front wars if we don't have to.

I didn't see anything in your turnlog about Great Library. Maybe I just missed it. Did you do anything with it?

 

[Bucephalus]

As always, an excellent set, Buce. Nice job.



Holy . . . !! I didn't even know this was possible!

The trick is to convert it to an Army before continuing the fighting.

No objection. I don't really want to be fighting two-front wars if we don't have to.

You mis-understand; my judgement call was filling an Army.

I didn't see anything in your turnlog about Great Library. Maybe I just missed it. Did you do anything with it?

There was no imperitive to do anything, so I chose inertia.

 

[Salarakas]

I've only glanced through the report but yet again. More comments later.

Phaedo, if you want to play during the weekend please do so. I can play early next week then.

 

[Aabraxan]

The trick is to convert it to an Army before continuing the fighting.

Oh, I thought the capture of Richmond had produced 2 MGLs simultaneously.

You mis-understand; my judgement call was filling an Army.

Oops. Nonetheless, no objection.

 

[Bucephalus]

Out of politeness to the team, I feel that I should explain my reasoning behind the aforementioned judgement call.

It was based on two considerations:

Firstly, Arab resistance was much stiffer than I anticipated, due to them defending with Pikes, and counter-attacking with MI's. Our offensive force was largely Swords and AC's, and I figured that it would only require some bad RNG luck for the war effort to stall.

As Winston Churchill so memorably said, when asking for American military hardware during WW2, "Give us the tools, and we'll finish the job"; IMO, a MI Army was the right tool for this particular job.

Secondly, a victory with the Army would allow us to build the HE, a decided advantage for when we invade the Beta Continent.

 

[Phaedo]

Well done Buce. A working army, two more in the wings and sighting land! That's great. With two empty armies waiting, I don't think there was anything wrong with filling the army. Pikes can be tough against swords.

I got the save. I'll look at it and get to it later today.

Again nice job Buce