Pick the Civ5 Leaders (There's a Catch)

[need my speed]

Which shows (as I've said countless times) how sad humanity is. Really, it's been 70 years, get over it. Why are we happy with Stalin, Napoleon, and Mao, but not with Hitler?

 

[arkguy]

Jose de San Martin of Spain, Affonso I King of the Kongo and President James Madison.

 

[StStutter]

Hitler doesn't deserve to be in the game based on his accomplishments, never mind morals. He led a country for 13 years, lost a war...and that's it.

He conquered Poland (not that great a feat), conquered France (who fell for a trick for the second time and who'd concentrated military spending for the last 20 years on buliding an outrageously large and intricate but seriously outdated defense system) and came close to doing some other stuff...

Not that great a leader all in all.

EDIT: also no cultural impact really.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Which shows (as I've said countless times) how sad humanity is. Really, it's been 70 years, get over it. Why are we happy with Stalin, Napoleon, and Mao, but not with Hitler?

Stalin massively improved Russia by industrializing it. Napoleon conquered Europe and has been iconic with France ever since. Mao is responsible for modern China and is certainly iconic as well (although I don't think he's a great leader choice either). Hitler is not only responsible for the massive negatives, but the positives aren't great either. He brought Germany (a nation that has been economically powerful for centuries) out of a depression. He held a brief hold over much of Europe, which was then lost due to his crappy decisions. He left Germany with less territory than it had before. That's about it.

 

[Aglaian]

Stalin massively improved Russia by industrializing it. Napoleon conquered Europe and has been iconic with France ever since. Mao is responsible for modern China and is certainly iconic as well (although I don't think he's a great leader choice either). Hitler is not only responsible for the massive negatives, but the positives aren't great either. He brought Germany (a nation that has been economically powerful for centuries) out of a depression. He held a brief hold over much of Europe, which was then lost due to his crappy decisions. He left Germany with less territory than it had before. That's about it.

Hitler made alot of jobs, took Germany from a country with an unemploy-rate of nearly 33 %, he made a small nation into a Superpower and ruined all of europe with hid madness. Clearly this mad man should be interesting to have in CIV - think about what he could put us through

And that he isn't worthy of being made in CIV? Well why the hell is Montezuma? All he did was getting OWNED by the Spanish. Hitler surely did more than him, in a modern age and way "cooler". NO IM NOT PRO-NAZIST, but Hitler is one of the men who deserves to be made in CIV because what he did was horrible and we need to learn. Why hide him and forget everything? So american nah just kidding - anyways

Hitler must be made!

 

[Me,myself,and,I]

I don't really think you can compare Napoleon to Hitler. Napoleon at least was civilized.

 

[Dragonflow]

Hitler made alot of jobs, took Germany from a country with an unemploy-rate of nearly 33 %, he made a small nation into a Superpower and ruined all of europe with hid madness. Clearly this mad man should be interesting to have in CIV - think about what he could put us through

And that he isn't worthy of being made in CIV? Well why the hell is Montezuma? All he did was getting OWNED by the Spanish. Hitler surely did more than him, in a modern age and way "cooler". NO IM NOT PRO-NAZIST, but Hitler is one of the men who deserves to be made in CIV because what he did was horrible and we need to learn. Why hide him and forget everything? So american nah just kidding - anyways

Hitler must be made!

You know that the story about Hitler creating jobs for the entire population is false do you? He didn't create jobs, what he did was remove all women and Jews from their jobs and he gave those jobs to older men. He also kept younger men from jobs by either conscripting them into the Wehrmacht or the worker army. So all in all, Hitler didn't create that many jobs, he just lowered the amount of people he would have to employ.

Montezuma is usually picked as the Aztec leader because we haven't enough knowledge of any other famous Aztec leader. But when it comes to Germany there is a large amount of famous and competent leader ( unlike Hitler) to chose from.

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

Jose de San Martin of Spain, Affonso I King of the Kongo and President James Madison.

Jose de San Martin doesn't meet the requirements set by the OP. Jose de San Martin is in Civ4Col.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Hitler made alot of jobs, took Germany from a country with an unemploy-rate of nearly 33 %, he made a small nation into a Superpower and ruined all of europe with hid madness. Clearly this mad man should be interesting to have in CIV - think about what he could put us through

A couple things. One, Germany wasn't a small nation. It was a superpower before WWI and is still a major power. He took an impoverished nation and brought it out of the depression. As pointed out elsewhere, he didn't necessarily create more jobs, but, even if he had, that's not saying much. An industrial powerhouse like Germany once was would surely have snapped out of the depression eventually.

And that he isn't worthy of being made in CIV? Well why the hell is Montezuma? All he did was getting OWNED by the Spanish. Hitler surely did more than him, in a modern age and way "cooler". NO IM NOT PRO-NAZIST, but Hitler is one of the men who deserves to be made in CIV because what he did was horrible and we need to learn. Why hide him and forget everything? So american nah just kidding - anyways

Hitler must be made!

First off, is the Montezuma in the game Montezuma II or Montezuma I? Certainly, Montezuma's accomplishments are hard to deny. If it is Monty II, I'd argue that it's simply for name recognition. Germany had plenty of other leaders with name recognition who did more good for the country than Hitler.

 

[Aglaian]

The point im trying to say is that we cant be afraid of wanting Hitler in CIV, by using examples that he didn't do enough?

I'm sure thatHitler is one of the most famous, if not the most, leaders of all time. Would be fun to have as a char. in-game and see what happens.

 

[Calouste]

A better candidate for a new German leader would be Konrad Adenauer, the first Chancellor of West Germany. In power for 14 years, brought a stable democracy to Germany, established a good relationship with France after 3 wars in the preceding 75 years and started the Wirtschaftswunder.

 

[brianshapiro]

You know that the story about Hitler creating jobs for the entire population is false do you? He didn't create jobs, what he did was remove all women and Jews from their jobs and he gave those jobs to older men. He also kept younger men from jobs by either conscripting them into the Wehrmacht or the worker army. So all in all, Hitler didn't create that many jobs, he just lowered the amount of people he would have to employ.

Usually the argument is he turned around the economy, not necessarily created jobs. I don't even know if the language about "creating jobs" was used in Germany at the time, its more of a Keynesian thing. From a Nazi perspective, they reshaped the economy in a way that it would be productive, and they felt that was the right thing to do to make it more productive.

I agree though that its not important to put Hitler in the main game. Not because of moral grounds -- Stalin is in the game, and he was as brutal / immoral as Hitler. Although if there were a WWII scenario it would be interesting to see him.

 

[brianshapiro]

United States
Theodore Roosevelt
Andrew Jackson
Thomas Jefferson

That's all for now.

Those are good choices, but I still hate how Presidents are picked out as having special status. In the 19th century, the three most powerful political figures in the US were Senators : Clay, Calhoun, Webster. And we really need to get back to a strong legislature instead of worshiping the executive.

 

[Louis XXIV]

To be fair, since the executive was one man, it makes more sense to single him out for a game.

 

[Schuesseled]

Hmm, im gonna have to go with Elizabeth for us britz, lincoln for the americans, napoleon for french...

What some of those are already in, well then i guess that makes me a winner.

 

[wandum]

Well, I would seriously like to see the Crown of Aragon with both James I the Conqueror and Peter III the Cerimonious as leaders

Other than that, I have had an idea with the leader of Spain. You could have, instead of just Isabella, the two catholic monarchs that would work on a simbiotic way. A similar but more humoristic thing could be done with the byzantine empire, in which the 'legitimate' leader would be Justinian, but before taking any decision or accepting any deal he would first ask his wife theodora (who is known for playing a very important role in the goverment of the byzantine empire during justinian's monarchy) what to do

 

[evarofzentral]

America - Woodrow Wilson/Theodore Roosevelt
England - Edward I/Henry V
Russia - Ivan III (The Great)
France - Louis IX (Saint Louis)/Charles VII (The Victorious)
Roman Empire - Septimus Severus/Vespasian
Arabs - Baybars
Spain - Charles III
China - Xuande
India - Ramchandra Pant
Greece - Polycrates
Japan - Go-Komatsu
Egypt - Narmer
Germany - Wilhelm I/Frederick William I