[Extension] Pineappledan Tweaks for VP

[ridjack]

I tried giving them a ranged attack but they could just attack everything then.

What happens if you give them, like, a 200% penalty vs units?

 

[Bruhmoment]

What happens if you give them, like, a 200% penalty vs units?

Maybe but they shouldn't be able to attack units anyway

 

[TwoPodRay]

I think it makes sense for them to be able to attack units. The -200% penalty could apply to the Dirigible and the Zepp and have a range of 1. Could also make it so that they cannot take cities. They are still airborne after all. Once upgraded to UAV, they could have a range boost to 2 and lose the -200% penalty to units, to represent drone strikes.

 

[Denn]

so this tweak is no longer needed as Official 1.0.3 incorporates tweak mods? or are some of tweak features still there?

 

[pineappledan]

Lots of tweaks are still in here that aren’t in VP. Check the OP.

 

[ridjack]

So I've been avoiding China for a long time because they just didn't seem all that interesting or powerful, and I've gotta say I've been underestimating them.

So much so that I now wonder if it isn't a little much. I'm currently doing six city Tradition, and the ability plus UB feels like a more powerful and more easily triggered version of Arabia's UA. Permanent WTLKD in all cities, constantly growing yields, half of my satellite cities are as strong as the capital already and we're barely in the Medieval. Obviously it's going to fall off hard as the era decline plus naturally slower growing cities take their toll, but given the importance of the early game I'm not sure it'll matter much.

 

[pineappledan]

I can shorten the span of the WLTKD trigger; I believe it’s 8 turns right now? Lots of different levers to fine tune China, but all the feedback I’ve received on them so far is that they are relatively weak

 

[ridjack]

I can shorten the span of the WLTKD trigger; I believe it’s 8 turns right now? Lots of different levers to fine tune China, but all the feedback I’ve received on them so far is that they are relatively weak

Huh. I didn't even get a high-food start; it was all covered in forest, but this has still been my easiest emperor game by a mile so far. Maybe it's just a weird one-off.

I doubt that shortening the trigger would do anything unless it were shortened significantly.

I'm pretty sure it's ten turns right now.

 

[pineappledan]

I'm pretty sure it's ten turns right now

I’ll at least reduce it to 8 for the numerology flavour

 

[Bruhmoment]

Interesting, I have the tweaks patch that added in the stormtrooper, and Germany's UA STILL doesn't work. To clarify, I just removed the powerplants folder but I doubt that changes anything, and I have the latest version of VP.
Is this just mod incompatibility with something or am I missing something here
Edit: I mean the +1 influence for gifting units to city states, if you didn't understand.

 

[pineappledan]

@dostillevi just demonstrated that in order for the UA to work, you have to gift the units by moving them to the city-state yourself and gifting them.

If you do the fancy teleporting thing, they don't get counted

 

[ridjack]

So I think this version of Genghis might be a little bit too strong in player hands.

Spoiler :

That's four Skirmishers and my starting Pathfinder. The starting Warrior died after taking Medan. Indonesia is already out of the game with five total units on turn 105.

Spoiler :

Two Black Tugs and a couple more Skirmishers. Eleven total units, one of which is my Pathfinder who's now off doing his actual job. If Monty ever decides to come at me, I'll just buy two Skirmishers over near him and that'll be all I need to keep him from doing anything. I haven't even employed any Ordos; TBH the Khans are too useful to sacrifice them that way.

EDIT: Emperor difficulty, huge Communitu map, 12 players, random map options.

 

[Bruhmoment]

@dostillevi just demonstrated that in order for the UA to work, you have to gift the units by moving them to the city-state yourself and gifting them.

If you do the fancy teleporting thing, they don't get counted

Oh
Looks like I'm never getting that city state on the other side of the entire map then,
I guess this is because of limitations?

 

[pineappledan]

In lua, the tools simply do not exist to check the previous owner information on a unit that was gifted to a city-state. It appears that when that unit blinks out of existence for X turns and teleports to a city-state, it scrubs the information for who the previous owner was.

You can still gift units to distant CS, it might not even take much more time. It's just slightly more micro than what you were doing before.

For now, check the principle of the mechanic, whether it feels fair, balanced, and fun, even with the partial implementation. If people like it, we can try to get it DLL-integrated, so the AI will be able to use it, and so it will work better.

 

[Bruhmoment]

So I think this version of Genghis might be a little bit too strong in player hands.

Spoiler :

That's four Skirmishers and my starting Pathfinder. The starting Warrior died after taking Medan. Indonesia is already out of the game with five total units on turn 105.

Spoiler :

Two Black Tugs and a couple more Skirmishers. Eleven total units, one of which is my Pathfinder who's now off doing his actual job. If Monty ever decides to come at me, I'll just buy two Skirmishers over near him and that'll be all I need to keep him from doing anything. I haven't even employed any Ordos; TBH the Khans are too useful to sacrifice them that way.

Really? I barely used skirmishers in my game because of circumstances. These restrictions limit the usefulness of the mounted ranged class:
Rough terrain
Great Wall
Aggressive neighbor (They spam units, remember?)
Maybe deserves a bit of a nerf, but I'm fine with Mongolia as it is, I pick random anyways

 

[pineappledan]

I hold steady in my belief that the tribute modifier is the main offender for Mongolia's OP status. Their ability allows for such dirty amounts of raw yield bursts.

 

[Bruhmoment]

I hold steady in my belief that the tribute modifier is the main offender for Mongolia's OP status. Their ability allows for such dirty amounts of raw yield bursts.

Four words:
Process:
Get scout from ruin
Find mercantile city state
Tribute
Win

 

[ridjack]

I hold steady in my belief that the tribute modifier is the main offender for Mongolia's OP status. Their ability allows for such dirty amounts of raw yield bursts.

...I actually completely forgot that entire part of his UA even existed. I've tributed MAYBE twice in the entire game, very early on.

So... I guess I'd have to disagree?

EDIT: Also not sure how tributing would explain me taking down two full civs with ten total units.

 

[azum4roll]

Mongolia AI has always performed well* in the early game even without tributing much. They do fall off later on though.

* Using Logistics Skirmishers instead of pdan's tweaks. But their skirmishers end up being extremely similar (5 moves, 2 attacks, full exp gain).

 

[Bruhmoment]

I heard on discord that you said this is the cause of the Yellow Brow having 23 strength and 4 pro soldier promos... Interesting
Other than that, I don't see any other bugs... at the moment