So the rawTourism from the building and wonder modifiers is just a complete non-factor I guess?
Does hoover give these bonuses? The opening Page 1 notes don't say anything about raw tourism.
[Extension] Pineappledan Tweaks for VP
- Thread starter pineappledan
- Start date
Does hoover give these bonuses? The opening Page 1 notes don't say anything about raw tourism.
So there's an interesting idea there. What if America focused on late game "advanced" infrastructure, gaining certain buildings significantly earlier than other civs. This represents America's advanced economy and infrastructure going in to the post WWII era where other empires had destroyed infrastructures due to the the war.
So Hoover = Hydro Dam in all cities (powerful wide production)
Smith = National Visitor Center replacement (Tall CV contender)
West = Military Base and Wire Service in all cities (not as advanced but double buildings - big wide bonuses good for Dom and DV play).
pineappledan
Deity
Right, I forgot I scrubbed the
and replaced with 
probably not doable, and definitely not necessary. I don’t think these UBs need that level of push.
The idea was more around uniqueness than power. This would replace many of the current bonuses if it was utilized.
pineappledan
Deity
Okay, so here's what I got for a design change to the 3 wonders. I have colour coded them to keep things organized and help compare bonuses of-a-kind against each other:
Briefly, my own thoughts:
By virtue of its
yield mix, Smithsonian has the strongest Purple bonuses and Hoover Dam has the weakest
The Tile purchases are all identical
The Smithsonian probably has the strongest Free Thing and West Point has the weakest, but they are all very different, which is nice
The converter bonuses are kind of a tossup, since West Point is doing something very different, but Smithsonian probably has the win here too.
For big different Bonus, this is West Point's strongest point, depending on your victory path and terrain, this could potentially be a major strength for Hoover Dam. It's definitely Smithsonian's weakest point.
Not sure if the weakness of Smithsonian's last bonus makes up for it being slightly stronger than the other 2 in most other categories
Purple - The requisite yield to wonders and building classes and GPPs.
Red - Free thing
gold converter to some other bonus.
- I reduced the GG points on West point to 1 because at 5 it's not doing anything anyways, so it's just there for flavor.
- I like the mix of bonuses to all wonders and bonuses to 2 building classes, because it retains that polyvalence between tall and wide America
Red - Free thing
- Reminder that these 3 wonders each cost 1500, and don't replace another building, so they are an extra hammer investment that America has to spend. Thus, I think some sort of free thing is only fair as a sort of immediate rebate
- Added 1 free Hydro Plant to Hoover and free museums on empire to Smithsonian
- A free Hydro Plant is far less of a bonus than the other 2 buildings w.r.t. the sum total of hammers, but it's a huge boost to a single city that comes very early. So I added an additional bonus to rivers/lakes to make it a "super-Hydro Plant" for that 1 city.
- I think for West Point, we can set the number of Artillery/Iron as high as 5 if we feel that makes it more equal with the others. Each artillery is 1300, and each Museum is 1250, so they're roughly equivalent.
gold converter to some other bonus. - I liked Stalker's idea of a Gold converter, or some way to use gold for America, but I didn't like the idea of adding more instant yield triggers, since that overlaps with the American UA, which uses a trigger on gold purchase already
- I increased the West Point's GG generation bonus to 200% (was 100%)
Spoiler :
Great Engineer Point
Great Works of Art/Artifact (Artifacts of different eras; 10
Great General Points
CS when stacked with a Great GeneralBriefly, my own thoughts:
By virtue of its
yield mix, Smithsonian has the strongest Purple bonuses and Hoover Dam has the weakestThe Tile purchases are all identical
The Smithsonian probably has the strongest Free Thing and West Point has the weakest, but they are all very different, which is nice
The converter bonuses are kind of a tossup, since West Point is doing something very different, but Smithsonian probably has the win here too.
For big different Bonus, this is West Point's strongest point, depending on your victory path and terrain, this could potentially be a major strength for Hoover Dam. It's definitely Smithsonian's weakest point.
Not sure if the weakness of Smithsonian's last bonus makes up for it being slightly stronger than the other 2 in most other categories
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So how does the "5% of Gold is converted to 
Military Supply and Experience for new Units"
The supply seems easy enough (if I have 100 GPT I get an extra 5 supply I believe). So does this mean when I make new units they each would start with +5 XP?
Is it total gold generation, or GPT (aka after expenses)?
Gold is converted to Military Supply and Experience for new Units"The supply seems easy enough (if I have 100 GPT I get an extra 5 supply I believe). So does this mean when I make new units they each would start with +5 XP?
Is it total gold generation, or GPT (aka after expenses)?
pineappledan
Deity
I was planning on making it gross and per-city, rounding down.
- That's consistent with the other converters and easier to code
- You don't get some deranged XP boost because it's scaling on empire that way
- You can't abuse it by switching other cities to Wealth process on the last turn of unit production
- Unit maintenance would cut into Net GPT, so having a bonus that cannibalizes itself like that doesn't sound fun.
General_Drax
Warlord
In the last iteration CS spawning went back to normal but there is a very high rate of Zeppelin for the Authority conscription mechanic. It's like 8/10 a Zeppelin spawn instead another equivalent era unit (landslip, riflemen). Coastal cities behave normally and spawn Ironclads as they should. Nothing I cannot handle: the new Zeppelin becomes a static medic/garrison until the end of game and the former garrison makes its way to the front line. It's fine.
pineappledan
Deity
update posted. buffs for the America Wonders
Korea changes added
Check OP for details
Korea changes added
Check OP for details
Supreme Leader refuses to formally acknowledge Worst Korea, but those changes look good. It'll be interesting to see how much stronger/weaker they are.
pineappledan
Deity
Reupping now. Streamlining America a bit more
pineappledan
Deity
Adding a TR speed boost
Faster TR is nice but not enough. I would still always take one of the other two without question.
pineappledan
Deity
Weren't you the one who was concerned about wordiness? lol. We could add a largetourism boost on completion, like caravansary or something.
tourism boost on completion, like caravansary or something.
pineappledan
Deity
It doesn't have to be, but it is compatible
Weren't you the one who was concerned about wordiness? lol. We could add a large
I was concerned about lots of tiny bonuses, if they have meat than so be it. I assume you don’t like the TR bonuses I suggested or are they too much new code?
pineappledan
Deity
The +1 Supply and +1 vote per 2 TR, and TR invincibility? Those would be new code, but TR speed and vision are both unused, existing code.
1supply for 2 active TRs sounds really tiny. And I am specifically avoiding diplomatic bonuses to prevent overlap with Canada, the diplo-focused North American settler-colonial civ
1
supply for 2 active TRs sounds really tiny. And I am specifically avoiding diplomatic bonuses to prevent overlap with Canada, the diplo-focused North American settler-colonial civ1
When you get it its going to be worth 3-4 supply, and may scale up to 5 even possibly 6 (I think) with proper wonders and treasure fleet and such. That's wonder level supply boosts right there.
The problem is Smithsonian gives you a very solid culture boost, so it could be argued that will get you your tenants faster = faster big tourism bonuses in the late game. So again Hoover has to be pretty meaty to compete, and on paper right now its not cutting the mustard.
But the idea of a Trade Focused CV play does have some unique appeal, so maybe with the tourism boost you mentioned AND some base TR benefits it could work (maybe a +1-2 TR on top, or we could use that idea of letting towns automatically count as franchises as a corp push concept). Or perhaps we could go a Portugal route and provide tourism per turn instead of when TRs complete, that way we avoid the spoliation problem.... for this is my biggest fear with reliance on TR for tourism when you don't have invincibility.
I was curious, just for the sake of brainstorming. Is it possible to give a specific tech and or specific policy/tenant as a reward? Not saying we should just seeing if that is a possible design space. If you can do it for a tenant, does it automatically make you that ideology, or could you actually get the tenant from one ideology and choose another?
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pineappledan
Deity
If you are going for a CV then smithsonian doesn’t help you that much IMO. It unlocks a tech after museums, so you would be delaying building them, which you probably wouldn’t do for if you were actually pursuing that victory. Smithsonian also pushes wide, which is counterproductive, and museums only give tourism if they have GWs, so you only need enough on empire to fill your theming bonuses.
smithsonian mainly focuses culture, which you probably have enough of with a CV focus, though it does make TR finishing boosts stronger. Meanwhile, the free hydro plant and other boosts on Hoover cover the weaknesses of a small, focused CV civ. 25% more wonder/tile culture and 2x TR completion rate is much more substantial for a CV, and for corporations. In any case, Hoover doesn’t have to compete directly with smithsonian; it’s fine if Hoover is picked less than 33% of the time.
I need a refresher tho. How is the tourism on TR completion calculated? It’s a % of the culture that has been generated in you empire since the TR started, right? So increasing TR speed will make these yields smaller, but more frequent, and overall the same?
tourism if they have GWs, so you only need enough on empire to fill your theming bonuses.smithsonian mainly focuses culture, which you probably have enough of with a CV focus, though it does make TR finishing boosts stronger. Meanwhile, the free hydro plant and other
boosts on Hoover cover the weaknesses of a small, focused CV civ. 25% more wonder/tile culture and 2x TR completion rate is much more substantial for a CV, and for corporations. In any case, Hoover doesn’t have to compete directly with smithsonian; it’s fine if Hoover is picked less than 33% of the time.I need a refresher tho. How is the tourism on TR completion calculated? It’s a % of the culture that has been generated in you empire since the TR started, right? So increasing TR speed will make these yields smaller, but more frequent, and overall the same?
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