Pirates target the wrong ship - a navy frigate

[Flying Pig]

Come on though, Navy vessels are pretty obvious.

 

[blackheart]

Come on though, Navy vessels are pretty obvious.

Who knows, maybe they saw the new episode of of South Park and had some plastic lightsabers with them.

I don't think of it as farfetched as some Somalis not knowing what warships look like, considering they don't have anything to base it off of.

 

[Masada]

Having spent a decent number of years identifying vessels myself from ship's bridges and cockpits of >50ft sailboats, I don't think you're being particularly fair comparing a professional mariner with access to Janes and other reference materials, and teenagers with what amounts to a bit of coastal fishing experience.

Look at the silhouette of a warship and compare it to a cargo vessel or a cruise-liner.... it should be self apparent.

Could you honestly tell the difference at night (going off of ship lights only) at a distance of 10+ miles if a ship you were following was a warship or a juicy target?

Ships lights... probably not. Silhouette with binoculars yes.

It would probably in reading the captions in the books with pictures of those vessels, if they had books. Seriously, it's not hard to conceive that some Somalians would not know what warships are supposed to look like given the shambles of their education system.

Condescension like that is the reason this got out of hand in the first place. You can't assume that they are stupid, the sophistication of there operations, the relative ease that they have eluded vastly technologically superior naval vessels and the impunity with which they have struck in the last few years surely indicates that illiteracy and a lack of a formal education isn't such a large impediment in life.

 

[blackheart]

Condescension like that is the reason this got out of hand in the first place. You can't assume that they are stupid, the sophistication of there operations, the relative ease that they have eluded vastly technologically superior naval vessels and the impunity with which they have struck in the last few years surely indicates that illiteracy and a lack of a formal education isn't such a large impediment in life.

I actually think of the piracy hierarchy similar to a drug cartel's. The smart guys are the ones running things and leading from the top, making most of the money with the least risk. Then there are the underlings who aren't so bright, but are expendable. Then, there are those renegade stragglers who decided to grab some guns and go try things out for themselves. Guess where the idiots who attacked a warship fit in?

Sure, there's an organizational structure to this piracy business, but I doubt that they have a vast and intricate mastermind plot.

 

[Mise]

If you don't know what a warship or other military technology looks like from its distant silhouette you're simply not a man. These Somali pirates are allegedly men, therefore they will instinctively know what all military technology past, present and future, allied, enemy and alien looks like. Duh.

 

[BSmith1068]

Ships lights... probably not. Silhouette with binoculars yes.

That is precisely my point. If these guys were following the warship in daylight and didn’t know what it was, then yes they are complete idiots. If on the other hand, as this story seems to suggest, they were following the ship at night they would never have gotten a good look at it until it was coming out of the sun right for them with a helicopter and small boats all around.

You can't assume that they are stupid, the sophistication of there operations, the relative ease that they have eluded vastly technologically superior naval vessels and the impunity with which they have struck in the last few years surely indicates that illiteracy and a lack of a formal education isn't such a large impediment in life.

Indeed. Intelligence has nothing to do with education level.

 

[Flying Pig]

Condescension like that is the reason this got out of hand in the first place. You can't assume that they are stupid, the sophistication of there operations, the relative ease that they have eluded vastly technologically superior naval vessels and the impunity with which they have struck in the last few years surely indicates that illiteracy and a lack of a formal education isn't such a large impediment in life.

It's not hard to beat the one who looks like he's going to win when in your element; see Vietnam, the Falklands, Indochina and all of those sort. The fact is that they by natre have the initiative and so will find it easy to avoid coming under enemy fire since the navy aren't everywhere. That russian gun just makes it easer - I've heard it called the bullet hose; takes no training and does something obscene like 600 shots per minute.

 

[Mise]

Here are some warship silhouettes I've found on google. They look kinda like merchant vessels to me

 

[Godwynn]

Here are some warship silhouettes I've found on google. They look kinda like merchant vessels to me

A lot of them look like freighters to me, I even see a yacht!

 

[Masada]

I actually think of the piracy hierarchy similar to a drug cartel's. The smart guys are the ones running things and leading from the top, making most of the money with the least risk. Then there are the underlings who aren't so bright, but are expendable. Then, there are those renegade stragglers who decided to grab some guns and go try things out for themselves. Guess where the idiots who attacked a warship fit in?

Sure, there's an organizational structure to this piracy business, but I doubt that they have a vast and intricate mastermind plot.

Wrong. They don't have the scalability to do that. Attacking a ship is a technically demanding thing. It requires sufficient skill to rappel up the side of the ship (often 30 meters or so above) and some degree of specialized knowledge with regards to engines, navigation, steering, currents etc. You don't board a vessel only to have the crew fake an engine failure by letting some oil out and letting it heat up with the accompanying smoke etc.

That is precisely my point. If these guys were following the warship in daylight and didn’t know what it was, then yes they are complete idiots. If on the other hand, as this story seems to suggest, they were following the ship at night they would never have gotten a good look at it until it was coming out of the sun right for them with a helicopter and small boats all around.

They could have just positioned themselves with the stars in the background... that gives you a decent approximation of the shape out at sea. Of course one would need to get closer for that to work. The stupid ones get caught is all that needs to be said.

It's not hard to beat the one who looks like he's going to win when in your element; see Vietnam, the Falklands, Indochina and all of those sort. The fact is that they by natre have the initiative and so will find it easy to avoid coming under enemy fire since the navy aren't everywhere. That russian gun just makes it easer - I've heard it called the bullet hose; takes no training and does something obscene like 600 shots per minute.

Boarding ships hot is a bastard by all accounts.

Here are some warship silhouettes I've found on google. They look kinda like merchant vessels to me

I have a hankering that the scale is completely wrong. A tug no matter how large (I've been on board one of the worlds largest is not larger than a cruise-liner even a small one).

 

[Bronx Warlord]

It's not like these Pirates are the most educated people out there. Zero discipline and tactical ability. Zero.

 

[bender19]

Its a waste of time arresting these pirates. Shoot on sight, increase the risk of death and many will begin to re think their chosen profession.

 

[BSmith1068]

They could have just positioned themselves with the stars in the background... that gives you a decent approximation of the shape out at sea. Of course one would need to get closer for that to work.

1.) That is not a tactic I would expect them to know, and like you said they would have to be pretty close for that to work. Not saying that wasn’t the case here, the details we have don’t give us enough info.

2.) What if it was overcast?

The stupid ones get caught is all that needs to be said.

I don’t disagree with this, but it is easy to say they were stupid in retrospect. How many do the exact same thing (find and follow a ship at night) and get away with it? If it were truly a merchant ship this could have been a story of another successful hijacking.

 

[BSmith1068]

Zero discipline and tactical ability. Zero.

Is that why they have been so successful hijacking ships in the past few years?

 

[Masada]

1.) That is not a tactic I would expect them to know, and like you said they would have to be pretty close for that to work. Not saying that wasn’t the case here, the details we have don’t give us enough info.

They were fisherman. Its something that you pick up quite quickly if you don't have modern equipment.

2.) What if it was overcast?

Depends a little bit. But ships tend to be darker.

Is that why they have been so successful hijacking ships in the past few years?

They haven't?

 

[BSmith1068]

They haven't?

You sure do have a high bar for success then!

EDIT: From April 15, 2009:

MOMBASA, Kenya — Somali pirates fired grenades and automatic weapons at an American freighter loaded with food aid but the ship managed to escape the attack and was heading Wednesday to Kenya under U.S. Navy guard, officials said.

Despite President Barack Obama's vow to halt their banditry and the deaths of five pirates in recent French and U.S. hostage rescue missions, brigands seized four vessels and more than 75 hostages off the Horn of Africa since Sunday's dramatic rescue of an American freighter captain.

That brought the total number of sailors being held by Somali pirates to over 300 on 17 different ships — a distinct surge in the number of captives over the last few days.

Pirates can extort $1 million or more for each ship and crew — and Kenya estimates they raked in $150 million last year.

…

This year, Somali pirates have attacked 79 ships and hijacked 19 of them.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,515875,00.html

 

[Flying Pig]

Boarding ships hot is a bastard by all accounts.

The reason, in my opinion, why they do so well is that commanders stop and surrender when they see a boatload of armed pirates coming towards them rather than risking the lives of the crew in a firefight; I don't think many have to board and secure a moving, hostile ship. Except these ones...

 

[amadeus]

A lot of them seem to have RPGs, though... those aren't typically good for a vessel's seaworthiness.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

Is that why they have been so successful hijacking ships in the past few years?

hijacking unarmed merchant vessals is not worthy of xbox gamer points

 

[sourboy]

lol, pwned. Nice trickery by the French to sail into the sunshine until the Pirates were committed and in range.