Tahuti
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Polish atrocities before the war?
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Domen
Misico dux Vandalorum
red elk said:
That's why I'm using a L-word in my location info.
This is an original name of Poland in Russian, by the way.
Tahuti
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I guess the thread should be renamed into Polish atrocities after the war, as this thread has plenty.
Domen
Misico dux Vandalorum
"Polish forum atrocities against innocent and tired Dutch people."
Nah, the thread is about atrocities before WW3.
hobbsyoyo
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I thought you promised to shut up?
Domen
Misico dux Vandalorum
Around 110 hours (I have just counted it). Against just several of third-rate, untrained reserve German divisions (numbers 200+, even 500+).
The above comment has encouraged me to continue (we Poles are disputacious non-conformists, live with it).
Without being disputacious non-conformists, we wouldn't have survived as an ethnic group between more numerous Germans and Russians.
Tahuti
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Don't make fun of the Dutch people, they put on quite a fight against the nazis.
It lasted whole hours, man.
I wish that were true.
Actually, since we couldn't put up a meaningful fight against the Germans anyway, we should have gone ala
r16
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yet this "pointless" resistance took enough attention from Ardennes and the German failure which was almost total forced movin' the Schwerpunkt to Sedan and a battle of anhilation or whatever . Instead of a cauterized front to add protection to Ruhr , the West Front had to destroy the Allies . Yes , the Dutch were quite a reason for the destruction of Colonialism .
moral of the story ? Do not belittle the Dutch ... even when you are one yourself .
moral of the story ? Do not belittle the Dutch ... even when you are one yourself .
Just dropping by to say that I admire both your knowledge and the effort put into these comprehensive posts, Domen. 
I mean I do not always read them in full since I do not want to start hating Poland myself but some others here apparently do...
Also good job on picking on each other guys, keep it up.
I mean I do not always read them in full since I do not want to start hating Poland myself but some others here apparently do...
Also good job on picking on each other guys, keep it up.
Like, isn't that total racism? Who cares if they're "ethnic" Germans? They weren't German citizens.
r16
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one for the r16 type of history ...
it's the Verdamnter Rotterdam . The volume of fire was such that commander ( Student ?) of the German Paratroopers who had failed to reach the center had to make a personal sighting . He was shot in the head , the reaction at his "HQ" meant they couldn't make an appropriate situation report . (Which the Wikipedia won't support at all , and quite normal , too , considering we ain't in the 60s anymore ... )The operative thing here is the Shell executive in Rottendam who was using "private" lines to pass on the horrible situation ; tapping onto that Abwehr made gloomy predictions about London deciding to save the Netherlands . Cue in soul searching music and a remark on the remarkable reach of oil companies .
meanwhile no connection to the units at the bridges , must mean they were overcome . Can mean no resistance to British columns driving up , especially so if Dowding is pressured to let loose the Spitfires . That will mean RAF combat air patrols and before the victory in France lifted the spirits inmeasurably , the Luftwaffe intelligence had some people who believed the Spitfire was utterly destructive and far better than the Messerschmitts , even the Emil version of the '109 . The only way to keep Spits off the battle was threatening the British cities with bombing raids . But if the German bombers were already in action within reach of RAF to interdict the BEF , what would keep RAF from employing its trump card ? When the Heinkels of KG-54 took off the unit commanders knew Rottendam had already given up , their mission was actually not forcing the surrender of the city but to bring down the bridges inside ... So that the British wouldn't want to make a river crossing in front of a Panzer Division which surely could reach the other bank in-time . Which actually was , according to Wikipedia .
yes , Rottendam ; ı just like the sound of it .
meanwhile the Germans were threatening the Dutch with gas , cajooling with offers of fair treatment , reminding the Japanese and making sweeping accounts of British perfidy -who surely wouldn't lift a finger save Java .
and how it came to that ? Primarily because of Norway . Germans had intented to capture the Royal Family and the Goverment of Netherlands to get a peace deal as quickly as possible . During 1935 or so . They knew they needed oil to invade the Soviet Union and Balikpapan would keep supplying the Home country ... Belgium was added in 1938 , because of Kongo and the Uranium stocks therein -but then History tells us Germans had no idea about nukes ... German Parachute units were established for such hostage taking stuff . Yet they grew , because Goering loved the idea of an Army under his personal command . The Hermann Goering Parachute Panzer Division was to become the equivalent of two regular Panzer divisions in size ; Goering loved to think big .
then came the urgent need of invading Norway ; ı can't see how it could have been achieved without the use of paratroopers and airland infanty . And the Dutch , no doubt reading it in the newspapers , put metal poles in the fields and put up machine gun posts all over the airfields . German offensive in the Netherlands could have turned into a total disaster , had the French been able to get interested about the German preparations for the Sedan thing and been prepared enough to make a show of force . The Allied disaster on the horizon relaxed the Dutch and they readily knew all about the 420mm Krupps that reduced Belgian towns in the Great War ... German paratroopers were dying by the dozens by Dutch fire in the airfields that were to be captured until green Very flares started flying ... Dutch machine gunners thought the evil Germans had taken over some secret documents or perhaps there was high level treason .
compared to Poland which had no effective means of resisting Wehrmacht (apart from empty Anglo-French promises and a deadly Red Army presence) Rottendam within the frame of the entire fighting in the Netherlands was far more decisive in the fate of Nazi Germany . Equally more influential than general "consensus" which offers the invasion of the Balkans delayed the start of Barbarossa . Greece was doing magnificiently with Metaxas making maximum use of "stolen" Turkish "plans" for a transit route for one Soviet Mechanical Corps to "defend" Thrace and perhaps lend a hand while we were invading the Dodecanese . When debating Nazi motives with regard to Turkey , do not ever forget 1492 . We would have a reason to fear Nazis ; we would fear them enough to allow the Reds in country . Would Germany want to risk breaking its 1939 accord with Stalin ? Or challenge America while the USN was delaying its own re-armament against its primary foe -the Japanese- with the sale of Grumman F4Fs to Greece , to be ready for "both" of the Reds in case of need ? Trust Churchill offer something real and make the gears work ... That 110 hours was glorious enough to get Germany defeat France and make it totally impossible to work a negotiated peace / cease-fire so that Berlin could turn East for its "mission in the world" . When that happened and without Metaxas what did the Greeks achieve against the Wehrmacht ?
it's the Verdamnter Rotterdam . The volume of fire was such that commander ( Student ?) of the German Paratroopers who had failed to reach the center had to make a personal sighting . He was shot in the head , the reaction at his "HQ" meant they couldn't make an appropriate situation report . (Which the Wikipedia won't support at all , and quite normal , too , considering we ain't in the 60s anymore ... )The operative thing here is the Shell executive in Rottendam who was using "private" lines to pass on the horrible situation ; tapping onto that Abwehr made gloomy predictions about London deciding to save the Netherlands . Cue in soul searching music and a remark on the remarkable reach of oil companies .
meanwhile no connection to the units at the bridges , must mean they were overcome . Can mean no resistance to British columns driving up , especially so if Dowding is pressured to let loose the Spitfires . That will mean RAF combat air patrols and before the victory in France lifted the spirits inmeasurably , the Luftwaffe intelligence had some people who believed the Spitfire was utterly destructive and far better than the Messerschmitts , even the Emil version of the '109 . The only way to keep Spits off the battle was threatening the British cities with bombing raids . But if the German bombers were already in action within reach of RAF to interdict the BEF , what would keep RAF from employing its trump card ? When the Heinkels of KG-54 took off the unit commanders knew Rottendam had already given up , their mission was actually not forcing the surrender of the city but to bring down the bridges inside ... So that the British wouldn't want to make a river crossing in front of a Panzer Division which surely could reach the other bank in-time . Which actually was , according to Wikipedia .
yes , Rottendam ; ı just like the sound of it .
meanwhile the Germans were threatening the Dutch with gas , cajooling with offers of fair treatment , reminding the Japanese and making sweeping accounts of British perfidy -who surely wouldn't lift a finger save Java .
and how it came to that ? Primarily because of Norway . Germans had intented to capture the Royal Family and the Goverment of Netherlands to get a peace deal as quickly as possible . During 1935 or so . They knew they needed oil to invade the Soviet Union and Balikpapan would keep supplying the Home country ... Belgium was added in 1938 , because of Kongo and the Uranium stocks therein -but then History tells us Germans had no idea about nukes ... German Parachute units were established for such hostage taking stuff . Yet they grew , because Goering loved the idea of an Army under his personal command . The Hermann Goering Parachute Panzer Division was to become the equivalent of two regular Panzer divisions in size ; Goering loved to think big .
then came the urgent need of invading Norway ; ı can't see how it could have been achieved without the use of paratroopers and airland infanty . And the Dutch , no doubt reading it in the newspapers , put metal poles in the fields and put up machine gun posts all over the airfields . German offensive in the Netherlands could have turned into a total disaster , had the French been able to get interested about the German preparations for the Sedan thing and been prepared enough to make a show of force . The Allied disaster on the horizon relaxed the Dutch and they readily knew all about the 420mm Krupps that reduced Belgian towns in the Great War ... German paratroopers were dying by the dozens by Dutch fire in the airfields that were to be captured until green Very flares started flying ... Dutch machine gunners thought the evil Germans had taken over some secret documents or perhaps there was high level treason .
compared to Poland which had no effective means of resisting Wehrmacht (apart from empty Anglo-French promises and a deadly Red Army presence) Rottendam within the frame of the entire fighting in the Netherlands was far more decisive in the fate of Nazi Germany . Equally more influential than general "consensus" which offers the invasion of the Balkans delayed the start of Barbarossa . Greece was doing magnificiently with Metaxas making maximum use of "stolen" Turkish "plans" for a transit route for one Soviet Mechanical Corps to "defend" Thrace and perhaps lend a hand while we were invading the Dodecanese . When debating Nazi motives with regard to Turkey , do not ever forget 1492 . We would have a reason to fear Nazis ; we would fear them enough to allow the Reds in country . Would Germany want to risk breaking its 1939 accord with Stalin ? Or challenge America while the USN was delaying its own re-armament against its primary foe -the Japanese- with the sale of Grumman F4Fs to Greece , to be ready for "both" of the Reds in case of need ? Trust Churchill offer something real and make the gears work ... That 110 hours was glorious enough to get Germany defeat France and make it totally impossible to work a negotiated peace / cease-fire so that Berlin could turn East for its "mission in the world" . When that happened and without Metaxas what did the Greeks achieve against the Wehrmacht ?
Virote_Considon
The Great Dictator
Don't make fun of the Dutch people, they put on quite a fight against the nazis.
It lasted whole hours, man.
That must put their fighting a couple of hours longer than the Greek fight
Now, for real longevity, you should look at Malta, Britain and the like.
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